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Arrggg..do I Hate Roll Pins


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#1 68guns OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 07:03 PM

Hate em with a passion. Here is the dealio. Still in the midst of changing the 5 oil seals on my G10 due to various leaks. Anyway i got 2 of 5 replaced but am having a devil of a time getting the roll pin (1/8x 1 inch) on the brake puck to come out.If I can get the puck to come off i will have clear access to the 2 forward seals. The pin sheared a quarter of the way in and it won't budge. I tried a roll pin punch with generous amounts of PB blaster but no dice. Can the pin come out in either direction? Will a hardened drill bit work on that kind of steel? I do not have access to a torch but i do have a heat gun. Think that will help?

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#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 07:22 PM

I think you will end up with an issue trying to drill it out. You said it broke off downside, is there anything in the center of the roll or jammed in the "crack" of the pin that would hold it open and jam it up?

If you an get to the other end, maybe you can compress it with a pair of vice grips (don't break it, just spring it some).

As for driving backwards, if you can get lined up and straight on, nothing can be broken by impacting the other direction, and barring specifics to the brand that would keep it from happening... I don't see why it couldn't go backwards... Just make sure you won't bend or break the piece it goes thru. Also, I would wait for someone who knows what they are talking about :thumbs:

The heat gun won't do much except make it easier to burn yourself. The heat isn't fast enough or directable enough for this kind of work.

#3 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 10:00 PM

As Alan said, you should be able to drive it in either direction. If you start striking the other end, be

careful that you don't peen it over. Then you'd be in a pickle of a different kind.

 It could be that the end of your roll pin punch is just

a bit small, and actually spreading the pin. Measure the punch. You may have to

grind the end of the punch.

Don't try to drill it out. Like said, that's looking for a broken bit stuck in there too.

Also, don't be upset with the roll pins. They're a good retainer. I think, anyways.



#4 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 10:05 PM

First, what's a roll pin punch?  I see some "tools" in your picture, are they it?  Where does one get those as I also hate pins. I have torch and that is usually what I find needed to get them out. Most times mine are on pedals and shafts and such. Some pins are solid and tapered and only go one way, other times you just mash over the end and make it tighter. I've had roll pins that are really just that, a rolled piece of steel, not just a tube with a split like you would buy new. I've also seen pins with a smaller pin inside them and works better to remove that middle one first to release pressure on outer part.  Wheelhorse likes those. Wait for the Third member to come on and really tell you how to work with them, Ha!  Just taking numbers!



#5 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 11:00 PM

The ones that have been in place for many years are a challenge to get out to say the least!  I'd leave the hardened drill bit out of the equation for now..   They are hard for sure but the drill is also brittle and could just break off and make things a ton worse quick..  The only time I'd even think of it is with a vise & drill press to hold things perfectly straight..  My nerves ain't the greatest and getting the busted bit out is a brand new dilemma..   :wallbanging:   (ask me how I know this!)  

 

How about this:  Grind the pin down to the collar surface so it won't 'mash' and use a straight/square punch to drive the dang thing outta there..  If that don't work, since you are replacing the seals, heat the collar up and drive that sucker outta there!!  I have no other suggestions and I wish you luck! :wave:



#6 Delmar ONLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 11:07 PM

Have you checked the 'how to' section on the home page.  there is an article on roll pin removal.


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#7 John@Reliable OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 07:34 AM

Yes roll pins are a pain but, with the proper sized tool (punch) and a few hits of a hammer they always come out for me.

Years ago a brought a good (expensive) set of roll punches, after breaking some cheap ones.



#8 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 09:27 AM

 I am having a devil of a time getting the roll pin (1/8x 1 inch) on the brake puck to come out. 

 

The pin sheared a quarter of the way in and it won't budge. I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Can the pin come out in either direction?  It should, if the brake drum has not spun on the shaft. 

 

Will a hardened drill bit work on that kind of steel? A hardened drill bit is brittle, and will break easily, creating a bigger problem. 

 

I do not have access to a torch but i do have a heat gun. Think that will help?  No !!

 

You need to be very careful when trying to get that roll pin out!  .....It is a real P.I.T.A., and if you wail on it too hard, you can bend or break the small-diameter shaft where it comes out of the transaxle.  I would always use a prybar to support the drum/shaft on the side opposite from where I was hammering.  ...It's awkward, but it can be done.

 

If the holes through the brake drum & shaft are lined-up, the pin should move through in either direction.  .....What happens sometime, is for the pin to shear partially and the drum will rotate, and the holes are no longer lined-up. 

 

If you can get a puller on the brake drum, you may be able to pull the drum off the shaft, shearing the roll pin.  ....Again, be careful not to bend the shaft.


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#9 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 05:02 PM

I agree with Bruce Dorci support the bottom side but not in the way of the pin to come out. You could be bouncing the shaft a lot in stead of a real solid hit. I don't think you mentioned drilling it out but wanting to use a drill. I have done this before using a drill shank first against the pin the correct size or like mentioned your just spreading the pin. I only done this a few times when I didn't have the correct size punch. It sounds like you might need to invest in a nice set of punches.



#10 68guns OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 08:51 PM

As you can see in the pic, the pin sheared at the point where it enters shaft so that piece is out.Collar free on that side. On the other side the pin is in through the collar and shaft. I tried an 1/8" carbide burr ball on a drill/dremel and got nowhere. Tried a narrow steel rod hooked up to my arc welder...got it red hot and a stuck it to roll pin. That had no effect. I guess my last thing to try is to buy a cobalt drill bit and attempt to drill the rest of it out. About ready to wave the white flag and surrender. I will have to live the leaks on the front of the transmission.
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#11 68guns OFFLINE  

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Posted October 08, 2013 - 05:25 PM

Two steps forward one step back today. Finally got the sheared roll pin removed. I went and bought one of these carbide diamond tip dremel cutter and it mowed right through the pin. A cobalt drill bit I tried first did nothing. With the brake puck removed it was on to replacing the 2 forward facing oil seals. The smaller one was a buggar getting it to come off. So as of now 4 of 5 seals are replaced but the right side hub will not budge. I tried a gear puller on it and it did nothing. Banged the heck out it and nothing. Anyone have any suggestions?

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#12 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted October 08, 2013 - 11:32 PM

The right side hub will not budge. I tried a gear puller on it and it did nothing. Banged the heck out it and nothing. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

This is another part where you need to be careful when trying to get it off.  ....The hub is cast-iron, and too much pressure from a puller, or wailing on the flange with a hammer, will cause the flange to break off the rest of the hub.  ....It is not a cheap part to replace!

 

Begin with lots of penetrating fluid of choice.   .....I have had the most success by using an air hammer with a blunt tool.  ....The tool needs to hit against the back of the flange, at the bottom, where the flange meets the thick part of the casting.  .....Apply the tool in short bursts around different areas of the hub, so stress is not concentrated in the same spot all the time.

 

If you don't have an air hammer, you have to hammer, using a blunt chisel or punch, as described above.

 

If you use a sharp chisel or punch, you have a good chance of breaking the hub, as a sharp tool induces a crack more than a blunt tool.

 

Good luck!


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, October 08, 2013 - 11:33 PM.

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#13 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted October 09, 2013 - 08:16 AM

First, what's a roll pin punch? 

A pin punch is NOT a roll pin punch. And grinding down the end will ruin it. See photo:

 

 

opplanet-lyman-roll-pin-punch-set-7031277.png






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