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Electric Fuel Pump - Need Some Help. K532


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#1 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 02, 2013 - 08:53 PM

Well.. I decided to finish some mowing around the property yesterday with the HT20. As I was finishing the tractor started to spit and sputter as if it was running out of fuel. I was close to the garage, so I just headed that way and she died as I was pulling up to the door. I figured it was just out of gas - however it wasn't. I still have about 1/3 or better left in the tank.

 

This tractor has an older Facet fuel pump (cube) on it. It runs and seems to be pumping.. but very little (then again i'm not really sure how much should flow through it). It actually seems like it doesn't have enough pressure to push fuel to the carb? The tractor will fire instantly if you dump a little bit of fuel down the carburetor though.. so i'm certain fuel isn't making it there. I haven't had a chance to change the fuel filter and lines, but will try this before replacing the pump.

 

The filter is not plugged, but the lines are very old. Is it possible it is sucking air some how?

 

Has anyone had a Facet pump go bad?

 

I have checked the connections on the pump and it is getting plenty of power and a clean ground. The wires are clean as well. 

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. I could buy another Facet, but would consider some other alternatives.

 

Is anyone running another brand electric fuel pump? If so let me know. I'd like to get the HT20 up and moving again. I miss driving it already lol.

 

Thanks again,

Nick

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted October 02, 2013 - 08:59 PM

Do you have any sort of filter between the fuel pump & tank?  Debris from the tank can stop the pumping action (even if pump sounds right) if no filter is ahead of the pump as there is a check valve inside the pump.  If something stuck the check valve open, fuel movement will stop.  You also might have trash in the tank blocking the outlet of the tank also, or possibly the tank outlet has a screen which is blocked.  Fuel cap could have a clogged vent.  


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#3 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 02, 2013 - 09:05 PM

I think Dan has everything covered.

I just bought two of those Facet pumps for 2 of my HT 23's.

Haven't installed them yet, but the instructions strongly suggest a filter no bigger then 74 microns be installed before the intake side of the pump.

I guess just like anything else yours could be worn ? Guess that depends on the time of use.

I've not heard one negative things about those pumps. Hope it's something simple.

#4 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 02, 2013 - 10:46 PM

It has a filter on it, and I flushed and cleaned the tank last month.. so i'm at a loss. I also tested it with and without the full cap on. I have another filter and new lines over in the garage. I had planned on installing them last week and got side tracked. I'm hoping that the pump is just sucking air - although i'm not sure how. I do know this pump was installed well before grandpa parked it around 15 years ago. I would blame the old gas that sat in the line.. but it was working fine before hand. Knowing pap... this may be the "original" facet cube pump lol. Dad told me today he thought it may have been the same one that he had on the backhoe years ago. Anyways - i'm at a loss, but i'll dig into it more this weekend. If anything I will just order another Facet (possibly the Posi Flow model). 

 

Ken - did you buy one of the fuel shut offs as well? The fuel tank on the HT20 has a valve on the bottom of it, but i'm not sure how well it actually works or if it is original. My HT23 does not have a valve on the bottom. 



#5 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2013 - 05:38 AM

On my JD 318 this past spring the fuel lines I replaced a few years ago were so bad , almost closed shut , I'm thinking it's the fuel we use now adays ?  Hope it's a easy fix for you



#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2013 - 06:35 AM

The only way to make sure is to replace all the old lines from the tank to the carb. You need to make sure the new lines are not contaminated as well. Blow them out with air and rinse some gas through them before connectng to the carb. I recently pulled the carb apart on a KT 17 and found a piece of rubber fuel line in the float. It was about 1/4"long and 1/8" wide. When someone was working on the lines that piece got in there somehow. Something that large in the fuel system is bound to cause problems at some point.


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#7 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2013 - 06:47 AM

It has a filter on it, and I flushed and cleaned the tank last month.. so i'm at a loss. I also tested it with and without the full cap on. I have another filter and new lines over in the garage. I had planned on installing them last week and got side tracked. I'm hoping that the pump is just sucking air - although i'm not sure how. I do know this pump was installed well before grandpa parked it around 15 years ago. I would blame the old gas that sat in the line.. but it was working fine before hand. Knowing pap... this may be the "original" facet cube pump lol. Dad told me today he thought it may have been the same one that he had on the backhoe years ago. Anyways - i'm at a loss, but i'll dig into it more this weekend. If anything I will just order another Facet (possibly the Posi Flow model).

Ken - did you buy one of the fuel shut offs as well? The fuel tank on the HT20 has a valve on the bottom of it, but i'm not sure how well it actually works or if it is original. My HT23 does not have a valve on the bottom.


I did buy inline fuel shut offs. Haven't installed the pumps yet tho.

Facet makes many pumps, if you do get a new one be sure it's low pressure. If not I understand the float in the carb might not work properly.
Here is the proper one.
http://www.kirkengin...ctronicFuelPump

I can get the model # off of one I bought, but I didn't see them any cheaper then what this guy sells them for.
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#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2013 - 09:19 AM

I'd just get short sections of fuel line, put them on both sides of the pump, then see if it'll pump from one small container to another.  If it does, then a restriction or air on the intake side.  If it doesn't, get a new pump.



#9 Canawler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2013 - 02:05 PM

I read quite a bit online that the Facet pumps don't last very long.  Fifteen years is a lot longer than anyone else I've heard of.


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#10 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 07:32 AM

It's actually much older than 15yrs. However it hasn't been used in the last 15. It is actually the 40160 which I believe is the 4-7 psi model. I am going to pick up a new Facet posi-flow per the suggestion of the tech at facet-purolator. He gave me the NAPA model numbers for the posi-flow and the cube. I will post up once I pick it up along with some pictures.

#11 Canawler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 08:19 AM

Napa actually had a really good price on the low psi pumps when I was looking for one for my GTX-18.  I ended up going for a generic one off ebay that ended up being a bit smaller and cheaper.  I think I've had it on for a full two seasons now and I have no complaints.



#12 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 08:42 PM

I was going to go to NAPA and pick up the Facet Posi-Flow model that the Tech from Facet suggested. However, I started looking up pumps and thought the Posi-Flow looked an awful lot like the Mr. Gasket 42S..... ironically an Advanced Auto Parts coupon ad came int he mail today.. so "coupon" trumps NAPA lol.  So short story.. I ended up with the Mr. Gasket model and it seems to be working perfect.

 

I added two inline disposable filters (one before and one after the pump). I also replaced all of the fuel lines and gave the engine a really good cleaning while I had all of the Tin off. I ran out of my usual engine cleaner/degreaser and resorted to using some Zep Grill/Oven cleaner/degreaser. I never intended on using it on anything but my grill... but WOW this stuff is amazing! I took a little nylon brush and started scrubbing the engine and within a mater of seconds I had 40 years of grease and grime stripped down to the original paint. I couldn't be happier with the results. I probably wouldn't suggest using this stuff on anything with a nice painted surface though.

 

Anyways - the Fuel pump worked perfect and the tractor fired up instantly and was no longer "stinky". Before, the exhaust fumes would give me an instant headache and I'd smell awful. Apparently the older Facet pump was to powerful. It was this one.. but was VERYYYYYY OLLLLLLDDDDD. http://www.napaonlin...1077_0334671849I

 

Is it possible it was forcing to much fuel into the mix? Because after I installed the Mr. Gasket (which is a lower pressure). The awful exhaust fumes went away. I also used to get black suet on the hood by the exhaust... perhaps this will be non-exsistent now :)

 

Here is a picture of the installed pump. Please excuse the horrible picture - it was dark and it looks crappy because I had to wash all the fuel and degreaser off the motor.. so I will snap some better pictures in the day light when it's dry sometime.  I might try to remount it under the fuel tank too.. but for now it doesn't look to bad (atleast to me). The "wire nut" isn't there anymore either. I used marine shrink wrap and cut/crimped the wires once I knew exactly where I wanted them..... oh...and knew it would run lol. 

 

1372959_10202237037791986_877066407_n.jpI



#13 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2013 - 09:22 PM

4 - 7 PSI is double of what was suggested by a few I talked to.
The facet pump I bought is 1 - 2 psi.

If it's working for you, I guess that's all that matters.

#14 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2013 - 08:31 PM

Ken, I don't think the old Facet worked right. It was apparently shoving fuel through the carb. Grandpa used it like that for years - but man did it stink! You smelt exhaust and were almost guaranteed to have a horrible headache after mowing etc. The Mr. Gasket 42s is rated at 2-3.5 psi. It seems to do the trick quite well. I actually mowed all day with it today and didn't get the fumes like before. It also ran more consistently. Tomorrow I will be pulling the mower deck and replacing belts - PTO or Deck... or maybe both. The tractor seems to have more power now - to bad the mower deck can't keep up with the new found boost lol. I adjusted the PTO lever - but somewhere my deck is slipping when mowing. Oh well... onto the next adventure lol. 

 

Nick






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