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#1 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 09:30 AM

Ok, so things are shaping up that my family will be moving in with my mom next year in her old farmhouse. She has the master bedroom/bath, etc on the side addition, there is 2 1/2 rooms upstairs for us and two kids, we really need a full 3 rooms. Below is a couple pics of the house as it is now and then other pics with my "expert" MS paint skills again  :D  showing my 2 ideas of how I invision enlarging room.

I will say, I currently have no idea the underlying structure to build on and won't be able to tear into thing to inspect until my packrat/hoarding mom gets rid of some stuff....she kills me sometimes with the stuff she saves, but we lve her!

I know we have some carpenters/contractors on here soooo..... opinion away!!!

Feel free to copy pics and do your own photoshopping with it, may help me invision better! :smilewink:

 

 

The current room is similar to a cape cod upstairs room, but the highest part is maybe 7' where the roof meets house, starts on upper wall then slants into nothing. Inside the room, the widest part is maybe 7 feet where a short wall is built and there is a cubby hole storage behind it. If I raise roof and open it up, I may get a 12' or so deep room which would be considerable.You can see the one window on the side of the house that is to that room, one on both sides.

 

Side

 

photobucket-9921-1379555504899_zpsab5596

 

Back

 

photobucket-7727-1379555530209_zpsb3769f

 

 

Here is one idea.... To make dormer style raise and just put a flat roof on it. The drawback I see to this is the roof would have a flat pitch and I don't like that, but may be easier to buld. The front porch is very flat and we have fought leaks for years.

 

side

houseflatroofside_zpsaccdbdd1.jpg

 

back

houseflatroofback_zps321f7a84.jpg

 

Here's is my other idea. I like this idea better even though it will require more structural work, but I think it will look better and I can actually make interior have a cathedral type roof to make space feel bigger.

I just showed my coworker and he suggest to even go higher and meet the existing hip roof line and extend out, but I would rather not bother all that and not sure if it would look right and I don't need the 9' ceilings the current upstairs rooms have.

....and I know my great skills show it angled, but it would be level roof hahaha

 

 

side

 

househiproofside_zpscd2e60c6.jpg

 

back

househiproof_zps8d67b8f6.jpg

 

 

 

My concerns are mainly structural. I figured I will probalby have to get plans drawn up and have submitted since these are structural changes even though building by the seat of my pants would be great :D . I know I would have to do some interior tear out to see what I am dealing with as supporting structure. I know this house is made with true 2x4's and 2x6's, house was built in 1906.

 

My biggest structure concern, and maybe you all can help me out, is where the side walls of the new "dormer" I will call is meets the roof line. I know the existing side roofs will still have their rafters, but what about the new vertical sidewalls? There wil be no supporting structure underneath as that will be middle of the room. I understand my ridge board will be main support for roof being help up by end wall, but will those existing roof rafters be enough to support the new short upper wall and the outside of the roof? Adding extra or larger rafters undeneath for support?

Also, I cannot go to the outside edges of the existing roof, this has to be more of a large dormer effect. I have old cast vent pipes you can see going up inside walls. Also, I do not want to mess with existing box gutter or structure on top part of house. I just want to add dormer in the middle to get extra room.

Sorry I can't get interior pics, mom has so much junk up there, it wouldn't help to see what I got.

 

 


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#2 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 10:13 AM

My suggestion would be the same as your co worker. Carry the existing gabled roof line all the way out both front & to the sides. The vent stacks are no problem they would just be continued through your new walls & out the new roof. Of coarse the thing you don't want to hear but you need drawings & the dreaded permit process. All this could be done over the winter. You will need to prove to the Building Dept. that the existing exterior wall in the front will support the additional load. These homes have so much character & appeal the worst thing you can do is for it to look like it has been added to in which it does now. This design would not only give you more needed space but would look more original to the house. The dormer plan with the gabled roof would be a much less expensive project to fall back on as plan B. The side walls with a double top plate would carry most of your load to the outside corners of the house. I have done dormers where the side walls rest on top of the existing roof rafters. Once you open the hole in the roof double up on your existing rafters that these new side walls will rest on. Depending on where you new side walls will connect to the existing roof you may have to remove/add rafters to line up with your new side walls. A few things to consider first are the mechanics so these won't be a major surprise. Is your existing HVAC adequate, does your breaker box have room or has it been updated, will you need plumbing? Keep us all updated on your thoughts & ideas.


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#3 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 12:06 PM

Over the years, there have been several houses in the area that would not "support" a second story. There was a contractor that would come in, build an exoskeleton of posts and take them to the second floor level. Then build on that. Not perfect, but they didnt say anything about structure after that and the houses looked nicer that youd guess with the finished columns on the outside.

Good luck.
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#4 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 01:25 PM

Thanks for comments. I wanted to hear what you had to say, but then again , I didn't cause I knew what it would be :watch_over_fence:

 

As far as the looks, the back part of the house is all original not added as far as I can tell, same floor joyces underneath, same big basement, foundation, etc. We do believe the house was moved on the hill it sits on now after the 1913 flood that wiped out most of our town. My dad and I found silty dried mud in the lower walls when installing the front door many moons ago.

 

I'm not too worried about an addition look anyway, just an old farmhouse and dad already added both brick additions to each side back in late 70's. Funny, the more he expanded to have more room for the family, the faster the girls all moved out. :D

 

I think if the gabeled dormer was built, I think it would actually add to it, I hate the sloped roof on the back.

I figured no matter what I do, I am going to have to hire an actual contractor or mechanic architect to look it over, maybe help draw up plans. I can do the actually work myself, but the paperwork/plans, etc is not a strong point.

 

If I were to go to the top and just extend it out, It would probably put project out of reach as I would most likely have to hire someone to do most of it or at least the main structure, the $$$$ is not in the cards for that. Not sure if I would even like that look, it would really make back of house look long and taller than it already is. GuessI'm pretty much set in my mind to do the dormer look to it.

 

As far as HVAC,electric, etc, the only things I would have to contend with is the two vent stacks currently there. That's nothing a coulpe rubber couplers and pipe up through the roof wouldn't take care of. There is no air ducts or electric on the side or back walls anywhere, only the front wall up against the middle bedroom so I don't that would be an issue. If I go the dormer style, I can build around those inside the room and actually make two small closets around them, kind of like under a stairway closet.

 

As far as support, I don't see much more of a load on the outer wall. Yeah, there will be extra weight of end wall and partial side walls, but it is already supporting the current roof. I guess there will also be extra shigles, siding, etc...then we go back to having an expert come out and then getting approval anyway.

 

I have got to really think this out, one of my kids may just have to settle for a small sloped ceiling bedroom :smilewink:


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#5 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 04:11 PM

My middle child has "settled" for an add-on sloped ceiling room for 13 years now. She doesn't seem to mind and because it wasnt huge, we let her pick out the colors.

#6 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 05:33 PM

The ridge board does not take weight of roof it is transferred to the sidewalls.



#7 glgrumpy ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 06:32 PM

First, not sure WHY one would move back in with MOM in an old house that don't fit!  That said........I would also go for existing roof and walls going out to meet the bottom story's walls. Less places to leak for one, and the weight is on the foundation and lower walls then. But, what foundation is there on lower structure and porch?  Porch probly not much foundation, but can't tell if  lower room is much better there. If all girls, why not have them all in one room, bunk beds if needed or other neat set-up you can build to kinda divide the room into two sections with furniture or small height wall? Beds made with upper loaft and desks below and small hanging closet on one end are neat. Built one once for my boy. Small area, but lots of use out of that bed and keeps rest of room open more.

   Far as electric....if not too old of wiring, could continue the inner wall there and go around the room with some outlets off those that are there now. Wouldn't think you would overload, just for lights and maybe tv and such. Heat could be maybe vented off system in house to run out there or electric baseboard, which would require 12 gauge and 20 amp circuit just for it.  Think if money is problem, you can rent Mobile Homes and have much more room to live would think, and be more private w/out Gramma watching how you live.


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#8 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 06:46 PM

think of a gable style matching the existing but just lower?? same footprint as room below

sawdust' had a lot of  great points ,make sure you double the existing rafters under the new walls, that would be minimum required by code anyway.

get a few local contractors to give advice on what your area has for code requirements, as that may have a big weight on the style too.

most important , do your research as you don't want to rebuild it later due to under built or not following code.

Good luck, Tom


Edited by TomLGT195, September 19, 2013 - 06:48 PM.

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#9 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 07:02 PM

We totally gutted and remodeled a 100 year old house back in 1993-94.

Put a block foundation under it and actually raised the house 16" higher than it originally was.

 

Make sure you have everything structurelly sound, and DO NOT remove any load bearing walls before you have temporary supports in place.

You will also need to use a pneumatic nailer, as the seasoned hardwoods in the house will be impossible to hand nail into.

 

It would be benificial if you have a friend/neighbor that is knowledgable in residential construction that can help and or give you pointers so you don't cause harm to yourself and/or home.

This will also help you keep your construction up to the current local building code.

 

It is not easy or simple, but it is challenaging & rewarding to take on a project of this magnitude!


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#10 refracman OFFLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 07:56 PM

If your foundation is found to able to hold the weight, by far the fastest and cheapest way to go is to match your existing roof line.  

Tear off your existing roof use the  rafters and sheeting/ planking for the new front wall, then run a top plate from the new front wall to the exiting wall top plate, if it even has one,  could be ballon construtuction, but no matter match'em up, Then fill in the angled section, O didnt mention dont mess with the walls?  Cut back the eave of the existing roof to the wall, place the new ridge beam level with the old, fill in the new gable end and run the rafters. Its a fairly simple and cost effective.

 

 Dont be afraid to reuse whatever lumber you can.

 

Just hope the walls are something close to a 2x4, somewhat square and straight,  as you never know about old farm houses.

 

Done a few of these and there is always surprises, dont forget a sawsall is your bestest friend when it comes to this stuff!


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#11 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2013 - 08:45 PM

A lot depends on your building codes and inspector. Locally here, we would be looking at beam( tripled rafter) under the walls. And from the bearing point, you would have to place studding down to the foundation. With your drawing it looks like that would be over openings on the first floor. Then it would mean opening up first floor walls to add  new header or check to see if existing is sufficiant.  This just based off of my experiances in framing houses, other states might not be quite as tough in requirements.


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#12 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted September 20, 2013 - 09:22 AM

Ok, i'll try to go back and address some comments/questions.

 

Grumpy...I grew up in this house from the time I was 3 until 25. It has always been an underlying notion I would eventually get the house. It needs work, but has 3 acres, barn w/field and it's where we keep all our 4H goats and other animals, already set up perfect for us. I live .7 miles around the corner and stop twice a day to feed. Do we "need" to move in with her? No, not really, but I can't afford to keep my house up and try to help suppliment mom. 2 of my sisters help what what they can, but .....

Other than this one room issue which actually can be used as is ( it used to be my bedroom when I was a child until my sisters all moved out), there is plenty of room in the house for my family and mom.

 

Here is why we may move back in with mom.....Dad died this past Dec, with her now limited income, she can barely get by, not to even think about repairing house. Also she just turned 80 and will need very soon to have someone around more with her. The addition in right side of pics is a large family room/master bedroom/bath, that would be hers. We would have upstairs and another full bathroom downstairs, front living room and share the kitchen. Besides being lonely and needing people around, she also wants us to be able to move in and buy the house before she passes so I do not have to deal with inheritance and fighting with my 4 sisters over it, I am the "baby boy" so I'm the "heir to the throne' anyway :rocker2:  :smilewink: .

 

Oh and we have boy and girl, yeah would be super easy with two girls. Kids are already fighting who would get the bigger room, we haven't even move in :wallbanging:

 

Tom, that's was kind of my idea....smaller matching gable addition just to open up the center of the room, maybe you are thining entire span aross the width? I really liked the dormer look as I would not have to deal with existing upper roof line and dealing those old box gutters. The tall, upper corner part of ceiling in the roomis only 7  or 7 1/2' and room is only 7 or 8' deep...you all can see slope of roof from the outside so you can tell how quick ceiling gets short inside.

 

The current roof of upper floor is basically a ridge beam and then rafters, not trusses. I've spent many hours up there back when I was young helping dad run new wiring to the upper rooms, what a bear. I know this house is build with old true dimension lumber, and freaking hard stuff too!!! I could run the roof line out and have an attic on new section, but I think for new construction, I would be looking at truss construction doing that, more expense for space not used or maybe not necessary?  If I could do the gable dormer, I would just be making a square in the room with a cathedral ceiling, bascially turn a small shaped pie room into and useable 12x12 or so room with extra sloped sides. Not worried about vents or electric, doubt any will be distrubed. Dad updaetd electric years ago so it will handle whatever load. If we can do this, son will go in middle room, there is a better distribution of plugs around room so he can set up his various reptile tanks in the room.

 

I really need to get pictures from the inside, may help everyone invision what's going on up there.

 

I guess I forgot to add in the beginning, that rear section is all one part of the house, it's not an addition added later or so the contruction seems to be all one part. I've helped dad many years ago do remodel of kitchen, walls are built the same as rest of the house using same wood. The section above the kitchen is also a continuation of the upper floors, there is already solid floors up there that is support by that back house wall along with the current sloped roof. In my opinion, all I want to do it raise the roof and add an end wall and two pie section walls, not much extra than the load already there. The foundation is old poured walls, I'm guessing maybe 10" thick or better, not standard basesment foundation walls you see today. Under the back porch is actually an old water cystern, no loads can ever be there, just the porch which may get screened in someday. I'm confident the back single floor walls are built to same as rest fo the house and would support what I need. Again, opening up on inside maybe needed to determine what will be needed.

Building codes.... what are those? :smilewink:  :bigrofl:

 

Yes, I know, I will have contractor help me out, maybe some type of building engineer that can advise me on if I can do it and if current structure will suffice.

 

I hope I don't come off sounding like I'm not listening or taking any advice orlistening to all your opinions. I know what I have structure wise and you all just see pics and are giving all angles/issues I can run into......

I THANK YOU ALL!!!! :rocker2:  :thumbs:

 

I have a couple different guys I know who do construction, one had his own business for while and actually build additions & did major renovations so he will probably be able to give me good advice and maybe other ideas that haven't come up. I've seen his work at our church and respect his opinions.



#13 toomanytoys84 ONLINE  

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Posted September 20, 2013 - 05:16 PM

My dads neighbor had a similar built house. They tore off the roof and extended it up to reach the other roof line. Worked pretty good.

Not sure how they made sure it would all support everything. I was just a kid when they did it.

#14 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted October 08, 2013 - 09:38 AM

The wife and I sat down and looked at my pics and she doesn't like my designs or thoughts. She likes the peaked dormer style, but doesn't like the squared up sides and wants a true dormer style to bring the roof line from the end and all the way down to the outside edge of current roof, I don't like that myself.

 

With more talking, it is currently decided kids will draw from a hat and whoever gets stuck with the little room for now. Our son will be going to college in 2 yrs and will be gone for at least 2 or those so we can worry about it later. Current money will need to be spent upgraded the un-useable well water,a complete gutting/remodel of the bathroom we will use, new upstairs carpeting,a nd other remodel projects.

 

Thanks again for all the ideas/advice.



#15 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted October 08, 2013 - 02:03 PM

I know the feeling. At least yours tells you what she thinks, I used to get the "I don't care" and believed it... After 17 years, I no longer give that sentence any validation.
Of course, Unless I just asked if I could buy a GT... Because I know it'll haunt me anyways, might as well have the tractor too.




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