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What's This Ht23 Worth?

bolens ht23 bolens fel bolens tiller

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#1 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 03:24 AM

I saw this Bolens on a local online classifieds.  I'm pretty interested in it--primarily for the FEL, and tiller, but the asking price is $3,000 which I think is pretty high.

 

It has the FEL, a tiller, and a rear scraper, plus the wheel weights and tire chains. I don't see any decals, so it's been repainted.

 

I have an 1886, but the transmission is not operating properly--it moves the tractor, but the pedal shudders quite harshly when I push it to go forward and back... I'm thinking the hydro is worn out... if I buy this tractor, the 1886 could be a parts machine for it...maybe...

 

So, what do you think it's worth??

 

HT23 LH.jpg

 

Smitty


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#2 KC9KAS ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 04:16 AM

It is worth what ever you feel comfortable paying for it!



#3 OldBuzzard OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 04:36 AM

"What's it worth" is always relative, as there is no hard answer.

 

You have already said that you think $3,000 is too high, but someone else might think that $3,000 is a deal.

 

With out looking at it and testing it out, I'd have to say that I don't think that $3,000 is an unreasonable asking price assuming that it checks out as OK.

 

Figure that the FEL by itself is easily worth $1,500, the tiller $200-250, wheel weights $100 (even thought it seems like all the eBay ones are going for more than that), rear scraper $250-300.  Speaking of the rear scraper, I'm going to assume that it has the 3-pt hitch as well, so that would be another $300-325. That leaves less than $1000 for the tractor.

 

The other question would be is how 'common' is something like that in your area? There are places in the country where something like that comes up for sale fairly often.  In others it's very rare to find something like that.

 

If that was local, I'd give it serious consideration even though I have an 1886 with a FEL, and all of the other attachments except for the rear blade. I would haggle a bit though as that's just to be expected  :D :D :D

 

I wouldn't consider an 1886 as a parts machine for it though as they are quite a few differences between the HT23 and 1886.

 

 

 


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#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 05:30 AM

Smitty, have you checked the linkage and any dampers in the hydro control of that 1886. The drive may not be a write off.


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#5 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 05:31 AM

The FEL is off from the look of it a begger tractor and is a home made fit job....

 

Scraper if thats what I see in the photo looks to be another home made job not worth anything.

 

I say you your looking at way less more around the $800 or less range.    

 

ALL I see there is a tiller tractor and home made attacments. But the next thing does it have PS?


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#6 A.C.T. OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 07:21 AM

Go look at it first. Start at $3000 then deduct as you see things that will have to be fixed. You should be around $2000 or less.


Edited by A.C.T., September 17, 2013 - 09:32 AM.

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#7 nglauer OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 11:53 AM

The loader looks like it was fabricated to fit nicely - but as mentioned by Wilber - the rear blade is not worth much in its current form. It looks to be a heavier JD front blade, so if it's not chopped up it's probably worth more to a JD owner. I would suspect the loader may have came from a JD as well. I would look at it, verify that the fabrication was done well - and work from there on price. Another thing to think about - can you operate the tiller with the loader on? the sub frame looks as if it would interfere with the driveshaft. I doubt you'll want to take that loader off and on very much. Also - without power steering I figure the loader would make it a bear to turn. I would also double check the steering, as it may be worn from the extra weight. Look and see how the hydraulic pump is setup for the loader. Make sure it's not mounted in a way that would render other attachments (mower deck if you plan to mow) inoperable. Same goes with the loader - you may not be able to attach a mower or any PTO driven attachments depending on how this is fabricated. 

 

However - all of that aside, it's worth whatever you want to pay for it. Good luck! and post more pictures if you get them. 

 

Nick


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#8 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 12:31 PM

"What's it worth" is always relative, as there is no hard answer.

 

You have already said that you think $3,000 is too high, but someone else might think that $3,000 is a deal.

 

With out looking at it and testing it out, I'd have to say that I don't think that $3,000 is an unreasonable asking price assuming that it checks out as OK.

 

Figure that the FEL by itself is easily worth $1,500, the tiller $200-250, wheel weights $100 (even thought it seems like all the eBay ones are going for more than that), rear scraper $250-300.  Speaking of the rear scraper, I'm going to assume that it has the 3-pt hitch as well, so that would be another $300-325. That leaves less than $1000 for the tractor.

 

The other question would be is how 'common' is something like that in your area? There are places in the country where something like that comes up for sale fairly often.  In others it's very rare to find something like that.

 

If that was local, I'd give it serious consideration even though I have an 1886 with a FEL, and all of the other attachments except for the rear blade. I would haggle a bit though as that's just to be expected  :D :D :D

 

I wouldn't consider an 1886 as a parts machine for it though as they are quite a few differences between the HT23 and 1886.

 

Thanks.  I haven't seen too many of the large frame Bolens, or their successors--maybe 3 in the past 5 years or so.  I paid $300 for my 1886, but it hadn't been running and the fender pan was badly dented and torn from an engine falling on it... the PO also scrapped the cab for it, not realizing what it was... darn!!! 

 

I realize that there are a lot of differences between the two--the tranny being the biggest one.  The engine on my 1886 runs okay, so it would be a backup to the K582 in the HT23.

 

I'm really trying to narrow down to 2 or three tractors for my needs (and wants).  I'd like to get a diesel, with a FEL, and 3ph for plows, harrows, discs, etc.

 

I've been looking at a '78 Kubota B7100 with factory FEL, a/m tiller, Bush Hog, and scraper.  It's 4wd, but manual trans and manual steering.  I can add a power steering kit to it, but I just don't know how hard it will be to use the manual tranny if I'm pushing or piling a lot of snow, dirt, etc.  It also is older, though seemingly well kept., and most parts are still available for it.  It has about 1,300 hours, and is 12 hours away... He's only asking $5,000 for it, but it'll cost me another grand to 12 hundred to ship it here-- without a chance to drive it and check it out...  anyway, I digress.

 

I called the Bolen's owner... he's pretty set on the price right now... I guess there's been several calls on it, so I may just have to let it pass.

 

Regards,

 

Smitty



#9 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 12:37 PM

The loader looks like it was fabricated to fit nicely -

 

However - all of that aside, it's worth whatever you want to pay for it. Good luck! and post more pictures if you get them. 

 

Nick

 

Thanks, Nick.  That was a lot of good information.  It IS a JD scraper... surprised you folks could tell that from that picture.  The loader is a Brantly? (not Brinley) model 500.  The tiller is original Bolens.

 

I like the LF Bolen's--it just worries me that parts for critical items like the hydrostatic pump and motor are getting scarce.... I wonder if I could put an Eaton 11 pump on my 1886 transaxle??? or maybe just put a different hydrostatic transaxle under it...

 

I'm confident in being able to repower the tractor when the time comes--probably to a diesel, but if I can't keep the hydro running, it's not worth it.

 

Anyway, thanks again for the advice.

 

Smitty



#10 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 12:42 PM

The FEL is off from the look of it a begger tractor and is a home made fit job....

 

Scraper if thats what I see in the photo looks to be another home made job not worth anything.

 

I say you your looking at way less more around the $800 or less range.    

 

ALL I see there is a tiller tractor and home made attacments. But the next thing does it have PS?

 

I spoke with the owner.  The FEL is a Brantly (sp?) model 500. I didn't ask if he runs it on the tractor hydraulics or if it has a separate pump.  The scraper is a John Deere--possibly from a snow blade.

 

I know you know a lot about Bolens' tractors.  I really like the large frames--are parts more available for the HT series than the 1886?  Also, have you ever swapped in a different hydro and/or transaxle in a large frame, or know someone that did?  I'd like to keep my 1886, but if the hydro is bad and parts aren't available (I've struck out with two of the suppliers listed here) then I will need to sell it or part it out. 

 

Anyway, thanks for your response.

 

Smitty



#11 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 12:46 PM

Go look at it first. Start at $3000 then deduct as you see things that will have to be fixed. You should be around $2000 or less.

Thanks, Steve.  $2,000 was about what I was thinking... the owner is pretty fixed on the price right now, but may take $2,500.  I just need to decide if I want to get this, and put off getting a diesel SCUT, or hold out for the SCUT.  I need to make a decision pretty quickly--winter's coming, and I need something to clear the snow out of my driveway when the city leaves a 2 foot berm there from their snowplows...  My JD 420 has a small, cobbled together loader, but it's extremely difficult for me to steer, operate the loader, and use the HST lever at the same time...

 

Regards,

 

Smitty


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#12 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 12:48 PM

Smitty, have you checked the linkage and any dampers in the hydro control of that 1886. The drive may not be a write off.

A good suggestion, Brian. The linkage is quite worn--esp. in the pivot areas, etc.  I don't think it has a damper on it, but maybe it does... So, if I tightened up the slop it may reduce or eliminate the shuddering???

 

Smitty



#13 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 03:16 PM

I spoke with the owner.  The FEL is a Brantly (sp?) model 500. I didn't ask if he runs it on the tractor hydraulics or if it has a separate pump.  The scraper is a John Deere--possibly from a snow blade.

 

I know you know a lot about Bolens' tractors.  I really like the large frames--are parts more available for the HT series than the 1886?  Also, have you ever swapped in a different hydro and/or transaxle in a large frame, or know someone that did?  I'd like to keep my 1886, but if the hydro is bad and parts aren't available (I've struck out with two of the suppliers listed here) then I will need to sell it or part it out. 

 

Anyway, thanks for your response.

 

Smitty

 

Looked like a brantly there no way to run it off the tractor hydro you would run the tractor dry...

 

There were 3 hydros in the Bolens LF being the  Eaton 11, Eaton 12, and Sundstrand 15.

 

The Eaton 12 was used in the 1250, 1455, 1476, 1477, 1886-01, 1886-02, 1886-03, and 1886-04.

The Sundstrand 15 was used in the 1886s-05, HT18/1886s-06, and HT20

The Eaton 11 was used in the HT23, HT20D, and HDT1000

 

Most say the Eaton 11 is the best but I dont have a tractor with one so I cant say. I have both the Sundstrand 15 and Eaton 12 I say the Eaton 12 is better then the Sundstrand 15 but but both are hard to find parts with the Eaton 12 being the hardest.

 

What Parts do you need? I may have what you need I have Parted 4 tractors with Eatons 12 in them.


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#14 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 03:31 PM

Looked like a brantly there no way to run it off the tractor hydro you would run the tractor dry...

 

There were 3 hydros in the Bolens LF being the  Eaton 11, Eaton 12, and Sundstrand 15.

 

I have both the Sundstrand 15 and Eaton 12 I say the Eaton 12 is better then the Sundstrand 15 but but both are hard to find parts with the Eaton 12 being the hardest.

 

What Parts do you need? I may have what you need I have Parted 4 tractors with Eatons 12 in them.

 

Thanks for your response. I think what I'd like to do is get a good running hydro as a back up.

 

My hydro works--it has a whine like most do, esp. as old as this one is.  When I changed the hydro fluid, there was a thick accumulation of black gunk at the bottom of the case--would hardly come out the drain hole, got maybe a cup of it, then it was followed by a lot of white curdled chunks--water in the oil--maybe a pint to a quart, then the red fluid.

 

That caused some concern, but the thing that worries me most is that when I press the treadle pedal to move forward or in reverse, it "shudders" very strongly, like its pushing back against the pedal. The linkage is pretty worn, so maybe repairing it and tightening it up like Brian suggested would stop that.  I'm not familiar with the machine, so I don't know if there is an easy fix or not.

 

Regards,

 

Steve



#15 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 04:54 PM

Smitty, I'm not familiar with the Bolens linkage but on the JD 300 series there is a damper that looks like a small shock absorber. This filters out any jerky movements in the control. The hydros do push back against the control. If there is slack in the linkage the entire system can oscillate and jerk or shudder. I'm not saying this is all your problem but if the linkage is worn it could be contributing to this problem. Given the mess the fluid was in it may be worth draining it and changing out the filter again. If you have access to a Bolens service manual it may tell you more about troubleshooting this problem. I'm not sure how extensive Bolens manuals are. The JD manuals go into the hydro and show you how to rebuild one. I know there is at least 1 tractor parts vendor on line who rebuilds the Sundstrand hydros. As far as I know the parts are still available, maybe not from Bolens but from a Sundstrand service centre. The 15 was used in commercial equipment as well as consumer tractors. 


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