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Sundstrand 15 Hydro Lurching

allis chalmers model 15 hydro jumping sundstrand 716h

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#1 jrk OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 02:35 PM

I just picked up an Allis Chalmers 716H that seems to have a problem that I've never ran into ...

When you put the tractor in drive (forward or reverse) it jumps / lurches - which I've experience before with Cubs and Wheel Horses but ... this tractor continually jumps / lurches while your operting it (and gets worse the quicker you go) ... I have no idea what is causing this but from the research I've done people recommend changing the belt, filter and oil. There was also mention that the remote filter hoses could have pinholes / cracks that are letting air in the system. However, I have not read any issues of this continuing throughout the entire range of motion (usually just on takeoff).

Has anyone had any issues like this before? Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? Since I just got it I will be putting a new filter, oil and belt on it but I was just wondering if I should tear into the hydro to look for groves on the plates or other areas of carnage before filling it back up with oil.

#2 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 02:41 PM

Make sure the belt tension is correct.  Then check hydro linkage for any looseness or feeplay.  If all is tight on the outside it my be a worn roll pin that holds the swash plate to the shaft inside.


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#3 achomesteader OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 04:02 PM

Check all the bolts in the front of the bevel gear box where it bolts to the frame and all the bolts in the side plates at the transaxle and the BGB to make sure they are tight. Loose bolts can cause the condition you described.
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#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 05:20 PM

I'll throw in the linkage as a possible cause of jerky response. Slack in the control linkage causes similar issues on a JD 314.  Any springs and dampers that are in the linkage need to be functioning properly to damp the response to control inputs.


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#5 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 05:29 PM

Could be the wrong type oil was put into it.  Straight hydraulic oil will foam and cause the lurching.  If so, changing out the oil like you're planning to do should cure it.


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#6 jrk OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 05:41 PM

I checked the belt tension and it was a little loose ... maybe 3/8" of belt deflection when pressed between pulleys.  I also checked the linkages and they appeared to be working correctly.  I will try and post a couple pictures later of the setup and possibly a video of what is happening.

 

I will crawl under the tractor and check on the bolts to the BGB tomorrow - that would be an easy fix :)

 

What kind of oil should I be runing? Type F, Dexron or 30W?  I looked at the oil and it was red so I assume its some type of ATF fluid.

 

Just debating on whether it is worth my time to tear into the pump / motor before doing the maintenance items (belt, filter & oil) ... to further diagnose the problem.

 

Thanks again for everyones help!



#7 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 06:09 PM

You can use Dexron III.  If it's red, then it's likely the correct oil.  But you can switch it to 30wt motor oil as well.  Does better in hot climates, or with a worn unit.


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#8 jrk OFFLINE  

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Posted September 15, 2013 - 06:33 PM

I went out and pulled the deck off to check the BGB bolts and found that the front four bolts were loose so I tightened them up and crossed my fingers ... unfortunately I still have the same problem.  I will go over all the remaining BGB bolts but they are hard to get to with the mid pto and driver sheave.

 

Keep the ideas coming :) 

 

Thanks!



#9 jrk OFFLINE  

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Posted September 17, 2013 - 11:16 PM

I tightened up the bolts on the side plates and bingo bango! The bucking bronco is no more! Awesome - Thanks Guys!
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#10 skunkhome OFFLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2013 - 10:51 AM

Way to go, Greg. You know he is rarely wrong. Achomesteader does not say much but it pays to listen when he does.

That tractor must have seen a lot of service pushing snow with a dozer blade. Something you don't see down hear.

Edited by skunkhome, September 21, 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#11 skunkhome OFFLINE  

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Posted September 21, 2013 - 11:03 AM

I checked the belt tension and it was a little loose ... maybe 3/8" of belt deflection when pressed between pulleys. !


Just for future reference you really can't check belt tension on the Soveregn traction belts with defection because the clutch is a spring loaded floating idler. The only thing you can check is to see if there is sufficient slack in the clutch rod and if the belt is glazed or if the bottom of the sheaves are shiny indicating that the belt is bottoming out and running in the bottom of the groove due excessive belt wear.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: allis chalmers, model 15, hydro, jumping, sundstrand, 716h

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