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Time to pick some brains.


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#16 Ranchkingron OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2010 - 02:19 PM

Ok first I want to say thanks for all the input you folks are great.

Now Since I'm a Watchmaker by trade I had all I needed to clean this carb, but I did find out some interesting things out that made me feel like a moron and should have went back to basics from school.

#1- Never use a professional grade ultrasonic cleaner to do this it's way to powerful, I should have remembered this from school since we were taught to use aluminum foil to test the cleaner (drop a 3x3" square in the tank an turn it on for 2 minutes, take it out and it should look like Swiss cheese.) but I did learn the proper mix ratio for a good cleaning solution that doesn't harm anything with a carb.

Water+Simple Green mixed 10/1 with a tiny shot of ammonia (I know ammonia and aluminum is a no no but in the amount I'm talking about it's safe) very similar to the L&R cleaning solutions I use in my work just not as strong.

I haven't tried the Tide cleaning but I will sounds interesting.

#2- The ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight is perfect for the job, low power but strong enough for cleaning a carb.

#3- I hate Humans :laughingteeth: after seeing what the previous owner/mechanic/yahoo did as you can see in the pictures it's not too bad but it makes me wonder what people are thinking? :wallbanging:

#4- You folks were so right saying what did I have to lose, it came out pretty good and allot easier than I thought it would.

#5- Don't start a project like this without taking pics :rolleyes:, I wish I had some to show how bad it really was but I didn't so all I have is how it looked when I got it done :brain_fart:.

#6- Being a Horologist has it's advantages (very small tools) when working on a carb.

What I found under the varnish/shellac wasn't nice but nothing that can't be replaced, typical dry rotted rubber seals, good looking high/low needles and needle valve which won't matter with most rebuild kits because they come with them, at least thats what I've seen ?

The real shocker was the float, after an hour in the cleaner it looked great till I shook it and it oozed foul smelling fuel and cleaner out (it's cracked) but still floats, so a new one is in order (but I may try to fix it just to see if I can) it's cheap and I cant repair it for the price of a new one, as a side note I never really knew what my Dad (Old Alabama Boy) meant by sour gas until now wow it's nasty !

And if anyone has a good source for parts please sound off, as it stands now I found out most of what I need I can get from Napa (Who would have guessed ?) down the road for about the same with tax as online but no shipping so it comes out less expensive, and any help with the carb numbers would be great.
Carb# 516-4C13 but it's hard to tell as you can see.

Sorry for the ramble but I just thought I would tell/show you Folks how it turned out.

Ron

P.S, If anyone would like to know more about some of the tools and supplies I used just give me a shout.

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Edited by Ranchkingron, December 03, 2010 - 02:28 PM.


#17 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2010 - 06:41 PM

Thanks for the pictures!
Looks like you did a great job cleaning the carb :thumbs:

#18 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2010 - 06:57 PM

That carb looks fantastic! I'm going to have to invest in one of those ultrasonic cleaners!I just thought that I'd mention that in the left hand picture, bottom row, the shiny metal "cap" is the welch plug. Behind that there are usually a couple of VERY small ports that need to be cleaned out as well. I'd get the rebuild kit before removing it though and make sure that a new one comes in the kit, although most reputable repair shops will have a supply of them in many various sizes. The problem with trying to clean it from the inside is that you knock the pieces loose into the plug cavity, only to have them lodge back in because they're trapped in the cavity. Removing the plug seems a little barbaric for delicate work, but you just carefully poke a shallow hole in the center of it with a scratch awl and pry it out. Replacing it is easy. I usually use a 1/4" drive socket that is slightly smaller than the OD of the plug and gently but firmly drive it back in with a small hammer. Just my $.02. Again, great job!

#19 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2010 - 06:59 PM

Great job on the carb & the pics. RE CRACK: Doing what you do, I'd imagine you have some mad soldering skills. Is that how you're going to try to fix it, or do you have another plan in mind?

#20 Ranchkingron OFFLINE  

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Posted December 03, 2010 - 10:18 PM

That carb looks fantastic! I'm going to have to invest in one of those ultrasonic cleaners!I just thought that I'd mention that in the left hand picture, bottom row, the shiny metal "cap" is the welch plug. Behind that there are usually a couple of VERY small ports that need to be cleaned out as well. I'd get the rebuild kit before removing it though and make sure that a new one comes in the kit, although most reputable repair shops will have a supply of them in many various sizes. The problem with trying to clean it from the inside is that you knock the pieces loose into the plug cavity, only to have them lodge back in because they're trapped in the cavity. Removing the plug seems a little barbaric for delicate work, but you just carefully poke a shallow hole in the center of it with a scratch awl and pry it out. Replacing it is easy. I usually use a 1/4" drive socket that is slightly smaller than the OD of the plug and gently but firmly drive it back in with a small hammer. Just my $.02. Again, great job!


Yep I kinda figured that, but like you said it would be best to wait until I find a rebuild kit.

As to the ultrasonic cleaner be sure thats it's a low power unit or you will be replacing the carb very quickly. see the pic of the one I got it's perfect.

Great job on the carb & the pics. RE CRACK: Doing what you do, I'd imagine you have some mad soldering skills. Is that how you're going to try to fix it, or do you have another plan in mind?


Thats what I had planed but haven't decided whether to use soft solder or silver solder yet, probably 60/40 tin/lead so it will be compatible with whats there.

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Ron

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Edited by Ranchkingron, December 03, 2010 - 10:26 PM.


#21 Deck_Drive OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 10:30 AM

I might have to buy me one of them cleaners. :rocker2: Sure beats the hell outta Carb cleaner lol.:yelclap:

#22 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 12:42 PM

Now Since I'm a Watchmaker by trade I had all I needed to clean this carb, but I did find out some interesting things out that made me feel like a moron and should have went back to basics from school.


:hijacked:

Wow a watchmaker! Can you post some pics of your watches?

#23 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 01:58 PM

It's a tricky deal soldering the float. It's easy enough till the last tiny spot is soldered. You have to solder till there's just a speck of spot to solder, or better yet, drill a tiny hole 1st, then solder the crack. At this point you MUST submerge the float in ice cold water as deep as possible, just leaving the tiny spot to be soldered above water. You heat just enough to get that spot soldered, then done. If you don't do the cold water bath, as the air cools inside the float, the float will collapse into itself. Also, it's dang hard to get the spot to solder anyway without the cold water, as the heat building inside expands the air & spits the hot solder back out.

Edited to add: Very doubtful even if soldered that this float would last long at all. It's rotted about as bad as it can get, and more holes/cracks will open up right away. But if just wanting to do it for the heck of it, no problem.

Edited by olcowhand, December 04, 2010 - 02:08 PM.


#24 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 02:01 PM

I might have to buy me one of them cleaners. :rocker2: Sure beats the hell outta Carb cleaner lol.:yelclap:


Yep, would he hard to get an ultrasound cleaning machine in your eye....man does stray carb spray BURN the eyes!!!!!!!

#25 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 06:06 PM

Yep, would he hard to get an ultrasound cleaning machine in your eye....


I'll bet if you did it sure would hurt LOL!

#26 Ranchkingron OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 06:43 PM

I might have to buy me one of them cleaners. :rocker2: Sure beats the hell outta Carb cleaner lol.:yelclap:


Yes it does but as I warned make sure that you use a low power unit like the one I posted or you may be surprised when you pull out a lump of what used to be a carb lol.

:hijacked:

Wow a watchmaker! Can you post some pics of your watches?


I would be happy too If someone would tell me the best way to do it, I don't want to clog up a thread with pix of the watches and clocks, maybe an album ?

It's a tricky deal soldering the float. It's easy enough till the last tiny spot is soldered. You have to solder till there's just a speck of spot to solder, or better yet, drill a tiny hole 1st, then solder the crack. At this point you MUST submerge the float in ice cold water as deep as possible, just leaving the tiny spot to be soldered above water. You heat just enough to get that spot soldered, then done. If you don't do the cold water bath, as the air cools inside the float, the float will collapse into itself. Also, it's dang hard to get the spot to solder anyway without the cold water, as the heat building inside expands the air & spits the hot solder back out.

Edited to add: Very doubtful even if soldered that this float would last long at all. It's rotted about as bad as it can get, and more holes/cracks will open up right away. But if just wanting to do it for the heck of it, no problem.


I agree it may not hold long and the steps you have laid out are close to what I was going to try but I have a few tricks I learned back in ZeitZentrum making two piece hollow lockets and sealed watch cases.

Like you said I can try it just for the heck of it and see how it turns out, but I think you're right with it being age hardened it will probably give up again in short order so I will just replace it.

P.S. The little dot of solder on the top of the float is actually the pressure differential vent they use to prevent collapse of the float and is soldered shut last.

Yep, would he hard to get an ultrasound cleaning machine in your eye....man does stray carb spray BURN the eyes!!!!!!!


Oh yeah it burns like all get-out, and yes you can splash it up from an ultrasonic cleaner if you're not paying attention to what you are doing, ask me how I know lol !

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#27 Ranchkingron OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 06:56 PM

I can't believe I forgot to ask this :wallbanging:.

From the numbers on the carb has anyone figured out what the Tecumseh cross reference number is ?

I haven't been able to yet but I may be looking at it and just missing it ?

Also do any of you know the best place to get a full rebuild kit ?

I.e. welch plugs, gaskets etc. Some kits have them some don't but without knowing what carb it is, it's all academic.

Ron

#28 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 06:57 PM

You are more than welcome to make a thread in the Off topic forum. To tell us about your watches

#29 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted December 04, 2010 - 07:37 PM

...From the numbers on the carb has anyone figured out what the Tecumseh cross reference number is ?


I believe that it's a Walbro LME25 carburetor. I don't know if there's any correlation between the numbers on the carb and that number, but I think that's the one.

...Also do any of you know the best place to get a full rebuild kit ?


Check here

...I.e. welch plugs, gaskets etc. Some kits have them some don't but without knowing what carb it is, it's all academic...


The kit in the link above doesn't have the welch plug in it, but any reputable repair shop should have some on hand and will likely sell you one for a buck or two.

#30 Ranchkingron OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2010 - 09:06 PM

I believe that it's a Walbro LME25 carburetor. I don't know if there's any correlation between the numbers on the carb and that number, but I think that's the one.

Ok I think I have it figured out now it's definitely not a Walbro carb but your link did put me close to an answer if you fine folks will double check my findings.

The kit in the link above doesn't have the welch plug in it, but any reputable repair shop should have some on hand and will likely sell you one for a buck or two.


Frome what I can get from all the prints and the Techumseh Service Manual (TSM) it's a LMP series 1 carb #631453 but those have been out of production for some time, but the TSM said the service carb is #631793 which is a dead ringer for the original one.

And based on that I looked up all the parts and they are identical so the parts appear to be :

Rebuild kit #31840 which has all the standard pieces plus two welch plugs.

Tecumseh Carb Kit - Replaces 31840

Amazon.com: Carburetor Repair Kit TECUMSEH/31840: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Float #632019A

Carburetor Float For Tecumseh 631023, 632019

Amazon.com: Replacement Carburetor Float for Tecumseh 632019A: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Bowl #631867 Which I may change.

Carburetor Bowl For Tecumseh 631867

I also found out that they have throttle and choke shaft dust seals that are not on this one but are recommended. #631183/84 seals+washers.

This is all just a guess based on the illustration and parts numbers that I found.

So what do you folks think ?

Ron




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