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Kohler K181 Will Not Fire!


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#1 Gfann OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:34 PM

I just recently rebuilt the fuel pump, prior to that it was having trouble starting.
The plug sparks.
When I took the fuel pump off I took the flywheel and heat shields off to give it a good cleaning. Put everything back on try to fire it, wouldn't work.
I check the points the spark plug both good. Checked the fuel, fuel pump gets it in the carb but the fuel isn't getting to the head.
Took the carb apart cleaned everything out real good new seals checked the needle/float all good. Everything checked out. Put it back together reinstalled. Tried to fire it, wouldn't go.
I have not tried a new spark plug but this one seems to be working. It seems the gas isn't getting in the head, but I also tried putting some gas in the head and still nothing.

At the moment I'm taking a break from it. All these dead-ends can really give you a headache.
My next thought is to adjust the float. I was wondering if the addition of the fuel pump is effecting the float somehow and it is closeing prematurly. I was also considering the idea that if the plug isn't firing in the head chamber that it might be an issue with air flow. I tried starting it without the air filter on it. The only part I haven't checked is the breather. I should've checked it when I had the carb off but I just plain forgot it.

It also doesn't seem like the high idle screw is getting wet either, right after try to start to start it I take out the needle and check it but it doesn't seem wet at all.

In summary, the fuel just simply isn't getting into the head. Even though there doesn't seem to be any reason it shouldn't.

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#2 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:45 PM

Looking at the first picture, it looks like the spark plug wire needs to be hooked up. I assume you know that. It almost sounds like you have a spark issue. You say you put fuel through the plug hole and it was still no go. It should fire since you did that. Is the spark nice and blue? I would replace the plug, not because it will solve the issue just so you know its not the problem.


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#3 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:55 PM

If it won't start when you pour gas in then you probably have either an ignition, timing, or compression issue. I second the suggestion to replace the plug, especially if that is an autolite.


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#4 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 05:10 PM

I was being a stupid once. I tried to set the points on the wrong stroke. The compression stroke and the exhaust stroke look alike when using the timing line on the flywheel.


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#5 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 05:20 PM

As for getting the fuel to the head, and after looking at the second picture, my question is, do you have the fuel pump lines hooked up correctly? Make sure the intake side of the pump has the line hooked to it coming from the gas tank, and the opposite side of the fuel pump is connected to the carb. I also like to make sure my fuel lines going into and coming out of the fuel pump are straight and inline with the carb connections. If these two lines are reversed, you will then be causing the gas to vacuum out of the carb, instead of feeding the carb. 


Edited by johndeereelfman, September 04, 2013 - 05:59 PM.

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#6 ckjakline OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 05:55 PM

Another thing you could try is.Looking at the first pic the long brass needle on top middle of carb.(I forget which one that is).Pull the carb off again on remove that completely counting the turns as you unscrew and make sure you clean it out really well.Blow air and carb cleaner thru carb.Put the needle back in to the turns you unscrewed it.My 7e was giving me fuel issues last year.I was pulling my hair out trying to figure it out.I thought for sure it was the float  sticking,but no matter how many times I pulled it apart and checked it, it still wouldn't start.The only thing I didn't do was remove that needle.So I counted the turns and pulled the needle.It was filthy all kinds of crud sticking to it.I had to take steel wool to the needle to clean it up.Blew it out w/carb cleaner and air hose,reassembled and it started on first try.Give this a try and see what happens, 


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#7 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 06:08 PM

Whew, sounds like you've covered a lot of the basics. I second the change the plug statement. Cheap elimination of a potential problem that has bitten me more than once by "just knowing" the plug wasnt the issue.

The fuel pump backwards is a great question, stuff like that happens to anyone.

I would tell you to put your hand over the intake of the carb to see if you can super choke the gas into the body, but if you put some gas directly into the cylinder and no fire, I think you need to verify good correct timed spark first.


If it won't start when you pour gas in then you probably have either an ignition, timing, or compression issue. I second the suggestion to replace the plug, especially if that is an autolite.

My problems have always been with Champion. Hey, maybe we should start swapping spark plugs :D
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#8 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 06:23 PM

Whew, sounds like you've covered a lot of the basics. I second the change the plug statement. Cheap elimination of a potential problem that has bitten me more than once by "just knowing" the plug wasnt the issue.

The fuel pump backwards is a great question, stuff like that happens to anyone.

I would tell you to put your hand over the intake of the carb to see if you can super choke the gas into the body, but if you put some gas directly into the cylinder and no fire, I think you need to verify good correct timed spark first.


My problems have always been with Champion. Hey, maybe we should start swapping spark plugs :D

I don't like either, but didn't have any choice to use anything but Autolites at my last job. They just didn't last long in small engines.

 

 

But yeah, I don't see any point in messing with the carburetor until you can get the engine started by other means. I like to use a squirt of brake cleaner.


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#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 06:33 PM

I don't like either, but didn't have any choice to use anything but Autolites at my last job. They just didn't last long in small engines.


But yeah, I don't see any point in messing with the carburetor until you can get the engine started by other means. I like to use a squirt of brake cleaner.

I try to keep flammable carb cleaner around instead of brake cleaner.
The carb cleaner has some lubrication to it usually and the brake cleaner has toluene usually. Nasty stuff, especially after combustion and may be part of many mechanics health problems later in life. Just be careful, I have done it before i knew of the effects of long term vapor exposure and am hoping to avoid some of those issues.
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#10 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 06:48 PM

You definately want to do it in a well ventilated area and also use the non-chlorinated type.


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#11 Gfann OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:14 PM

So the consensus is [change the spark plug.] That'll be my tomorrow thing. I talked to me brother-in-law he agreed. I did the gas in the head test again and put a tad more tried to start it, but the plug was wet. He said that some plugs [when they good bad] will fire outside of the engine but when they are under pressure, will not. I think someone here said that too but over all the new plug idea it seems is the go to move.

Pleeeease be the spark plug. [fingers crossed]

#12 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:48 PM

As for getting the fuel to the head, and after looking at the second picture, my question is, do you have the fuel pump lines hooked up correctly?

My k181 had the in and out reversed from normal. Yes, I'm sure, the ports were labeled.



#13 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:51 PM

As stated before....make sure the hoses are connected correctly to the fuel pump.

I use a spray bottle with gasoline in it to "spray" fuel into the carb when I am attempting to start a "new to me" engine....After checking for spark 1st!



#14 Gfann OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:59 PM

The in/out is labeled I put it back on the way it came off. Judging by how the old hoses were angled, my set up is more or less how they ran before. Albeit a bit twisted. If I switched the top, the line to the 'in' from the tank would be longer and more angled but the out would be shorter and less distance to the carb.

#15 lyall ONLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 08:02 PM

check the wire from the coil to the points - I had a bad wire or connection so I made a new wire and it starts and runs better than it has in yours

 

always check your wiring - both for ohms and voltage






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