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I Cant Get My Wisconsin To Fire


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#1 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 10:08 AM

My engine is a 1967 Wisconsin TRA-10D with the Zenith carb.  I have tried everything I can think of and I cant get it to fire.  Below is a list of things I have tried.

 

Checked plug---nice blue fire

Cleaned and adjusted points

checked the points timing

compression test---cant do actual test, but I cant hold my thumb over the spark plug hole as it cranks, it blows off.

complete dis-assembly of the carb...all passages are clean, float is adjusted, needle valve is closing

tappet/valve clearance is good

valves are opening and closing.(as are points) so camshaft probably isn't broken.

checked crank case breather

checked throttle/governor/choke linkage

 

I can crank and crank and crank and it wont fire.  Eventually, after a lot of cranking, gas will start to run out of the carb. When I check the plug, it appears dry, I would expect the engine to be flooded, but presence of gas isn't there, so I tried pouring a bit of gas in the spark plug hole, and still nothing.  No popping, nothing, just turns and turns.

 

At this point, I desperately need some help.  I don't know where to go next.  I really wast to start restoring my new little tractor, but I would like to make sure its gonna run first.  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, Thanks.



#2 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 10:33 AM

Make sure the spark will jump at least 3/16 in. It takes more to fire the plug in the cylinder against compression than it does to fire outside. If that's good, did you try a different plug? Again, just because it fires outside the cylinder doesn't mean it will fire in the cylinder.


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#3 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 10:38 AM

First thing I would do is take a short drive to whatever auto place is open today and find a lighted spark checker like this one.
.image.jpg
They run $5-10 and will save you a TON of guesswork.

Disconnect any kill wires that may be going to the mag.

I would also get another spark plug.
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#4 OkieGt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 11:56 AM

and check to see if you have fire at the points


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#5 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 01:29 PM

Sounds like a timing issue to me.  I'm not familiar with Wisconsin engine timing, but if it was a Briggs or a Tecumseh, I'd pull the flywheel and check the key to see if it is sheared.


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#6 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 01:39 PM

How is your compression?  I had an engine that would not run until I replaced the piston rings.  Oil would splash up past the oil control ring, and the compression was worth nothing.  New rings later it ran like a champ.

 

Ben W.


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#7 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 02:39 PM

OkieGT, I did use a test light off the points and I do have fire there. New Canadian, the Wisconsin has no magneto and the points run directly off the cam so I dont think that kind of timing issue could be it unless there is something I am not understanding. As for the rings superaben, I'm not sure.  A proper compression test can not be done on the Wisconsin due to the compression relief mechanism it has, but as I try to plug the spark plug hole with my thumb,  enough compression is there so it will blow my thumb off the hole.  It seems like it should be enough to run, but I could be wrong.  Perhaps a few internal measurements are in order.


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#8 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 03:01 PM

Crank the engine backwards by hand to do the compression check. I suspect the the spark is weak or the gas is bad. I would try it with a very little bit of starting fluid in the carb after changing the spark plug. Good Luck, Rick


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#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 03:03 PM

Wait, you said the engine has no mag... Does it have a coil or do you mean no external magneto?

#10 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 03:09 PM

This Engine should be using a 12volt Automotive style coil.

 

If the engine hasnt been running in some time the cylinder walls become dry and will make an engine hard to start or not start at all.

With the piston down pour an ounce or so of oil down the sparkplug hole and let it sit a few minutes. Then with the plug still out turn the engine over to get the excess oil out and to coat the cylinder walls.


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#11 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 05:26 PM

Wait, you said the engine has no mag... Does it have a coil or do you mean no external magneto?

This engine uses a coil, no magneto



#12 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 05:28 PM

Crank the engine backwards by hand to do the compression check. I suspect the the spark is weak or the gas is bad. I would try it with a very little bit of starting fluid in the carb after changing the spark plug. Good Luck, Rick

I will try this tomorrow when I can get a new plug, thanks



#13 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2013 - 05:30 PM

This Engine should be using a 12volt Automotive style coil.

 

If the engine hasnt been running in some time the cylinder walls become dry and will make an engine hard to start or not start at all.

With the piston down pour an ounce or so of oil down the sparkplug hole and let it sit a few minutes. Then with the plug still out turn the engine over to get the excess oil out and to coat the cylinder walls.

Thanks Bolens 1000, I will try this tomorrow after I get a new plug.  The previous owner said the engine just quit on him,  so that may be part of the puzzle as well.  I cant wait to get to the bottom of this, this is my first old Bolens and I am anxious to give her a spin before her big teardown.


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#14 quickstrt OFFLINE  

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Posted September 09, 2013 - 03:22 AM

So the drama continues...I put a new spark plug in the old girl.  I bought a spark tester as suggested by MH81.  The result, It has spark, but cranks and cranks but wont fire even with gas poured into the cylinder.  

 

My father in law was around to help me tinker with it this weekend. His 82 years of life experience always being on the farm and familiar with some of the Wisconsins big sisters cant hurt. Even in his opinion, there is plenty of compression in the engine, so I dont think this is an issue.  

 

I removed the starter belt and wrapped a rope around the pulley and gave it a few cranks thinking maybe it just wasn't turning over fast enough.  Still wont start. Now we've come up with the brainstorm of hooking an 110 volt electric starter motor up to it.  After a couple of blown breakers, and lots of turning, It finally started...sort of.  After turning for about a minute and a half with the electric motor,  it will run rough, under its own power.  Adjustment of the low speed needle is very sensitive, but not consistent.  The first time, it popped off when the low speed needle was completely closed.  Then it would not restart at all.  Fiddling with the needles, choke and throttle, it will eventually start back up under the power of the 110v electric starter motor.  

 

Not completely sure where to go from here...I did order an overhaul kit for the carb and a new main needle and packing.  I will put this together when it comes.  Anyone have any more ideas, I feel like I am so close to getting it running, but yet it just wont run.



#15 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted September 09, 2013 - 07:51 PM

I still say it is a timing issue.  All the spark & compression in the world does you no good if they don't occur at the right time.


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