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Empire Model X ?

empire briggs model b

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#1 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 12:58 PM

After the local engine show a fellow told another exhibitor that his Dad,s old walk behind was available,when my friend said he had enough a buddy and I went down and picked it up. The old Empire is in really tough shape the plow and the cultivator too,the cylinder head and other parts were found in the ground around were the old tractor laid upside down.According to the plate on the engine it is a Briggs Model B built in 1945 so I am assuming so was the tractor.Really the worst of of it is the one rim which is completely rusted away,if I can find another the implements I can fix up and the engine replace.The rim is 16 " with about a 13 1/2 " center,might be possible to use another car / truck / tractor rim .I believe it is a Model X,the tool box lid is there with the Empire name and Windsor on it but the model part is too faint to make out.I am going  to save this unit even if I never find a rim really hate to see this stuff scrapped. If anybody in Southern Ontario has a decent rim for sale drop me a line or if you have more info that would be great. Still waiting to see about another on a Waterloo Model 20/ Cheers Mike

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  • Empire 2.jpg

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#2 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 02:38 PM

Interesting! I would think you could remachine the engine. What is that big box behind it? Is that all transmission?



#3 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 04:45 PM

Spent the afternoon with it and got some stuff freed up like the wheel dogs,part of the forward shift,PTO pulley and linkage yes the top of the gear box is a large cast iron tool box the lid is safe in the garage for now.The tool box formed the lid for the gear box which I unbolted to take a peek inside,the oil has long drained off the gears and they are starting to rust.Shot some oil in and put in motor oil to stop it getting worse.Removed the 3 grease cups and put oil and grease inside to force some lube thru.For a 3 horse power machine it is just massive,two large cast iron rear swing arms to mount a 8 " plow or cultivator to.No wonder the old stuff lasted so long just so wildly over built .

 

Compared to my John Deere L130 tractor it is completely backward the JD is all engine no real chassis to speak of while the Empire is all cast iron, huge 16 " tires, cast iron I beam type hitch but only 3 horse power . Cheers Mike



#4 Lauber1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 05:02 PM

A lot of times one find that the walking tractors were built of common stuff. Finding a running briggs B engine should be fairly easy and usually not hard on the pocket.  Im sure with a little looking you can find something else that used the same rim. It amazing what a month in the shop will do for a tractor in that shape.  I'd like to be able to find one of them.


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#5 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 05:26 PM

After the local engine show a fellow told another exhibitor that his Dad,s old walk behind was available,when my friend said he had enough a buddy and I went down and picked it up. The old Empire is in really tough shape the plow and the cultivator too,the cylinder head and other parts were found in the ground around were the old tractor laid upside down.According to the plate on the engine it is a Briggs Model B built in 1945 so I am assuming so was the tractor.Really the worst of of it is the one rim which is completely rusted away,if I can find another the implements I can fix up and the engine replace.The rim is 16 " with about a 13 1/2 " center,might be possible to use another car / truck / tractor rim .I believe it is a Model X,the tool box lid is there with the Empire name and Windsor on it but the model part is too faint to make out.I am going  to save this unit even if I never find a rim really hate to see this stuff scrapped. If anybody in Southern Ontario has a decent rim for sale drop me a line or if you have more info that would be great. Still waiting to see about another on a Waterloo Model 20/ Cheers Mike

 

 

Miller tire does sell rim blanks without the center.


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#6 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 08:18 PM

I always had a soft spot for the walk behinds,they define the line between "old" and "vintage" . Our local show has fell on hard times,people who do bother to show seem to think the 80,s were ancient times stuff showed up looking like it just cut the grass ! Think the rim is the tough part the engine and wood handles should be doable,don,t want to sink to much into it as the shows here are in a decline.Would really like to do a old time plowing match in the fall just like the IPM. How are you shows faring ? Cheers Mike



#7 Lauber1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 08:31 PM

Our shows are pretty hit and miss. you never know who's coming anymore. The hot weather seems to be killing off most of the summer ones the last couple of yrs.

 

I have enough stuff of all kinds to do my own show, so I don't really worry about whether or not they have people at the ones I go to. I go to several shows just to see people, I've know for many yrs in the hobby. Always nice to see people, but in the end I don't let a declining show decide on if I will restore something. I buy them cause I like them, I like doing the research on them, I like the rebuilding part. Always great to bring a dead object back to life. Most times I just park them back in the shed or on the shelf after a season of showing. I don't usually take the same tractors to a show that I took the year before.  Actually its boring to go to shows sometimes, as most don't let you do anything with the tractor other than park it. They just want you to come and be the draw for there bank account.


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#8 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2013 - 08:52 PM

If you want parts for that original engine, contact Will Woodard of Will's What Nots.  He knows all there is to know on Briggs.

 

Ben W.


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#9 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2013 - 08:25 AM

Thanks but the original engine sat outside for years without the head on and is really seized tight ,so I would keep it for parts or a souvenir.It is neat to see a Briggs engine with cast iron shrouds and a hand crank. Cheers Mike



#10 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2013 - 09:21 AM

You can sacrifice the piston to get it open, then rebore.               . . . . . or you could get another engine!


Edited by LilysDad, August 30, 2013 - 09:22 AM.

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#11 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2013 - 02:06 PM

Millers does sell a 16 x 4 rim blank with the correct 13 1/2 " inside diameter so that would be another option. Thanks WilberJ . Think this must have been a tough engine to start in the frosty weather as the transmission was always turning with the engine,you would think that older heavy oil would be quite a drag on a engine trying to start. The engine sump was cast into the front frame instead of a normal engine sitting on a frame.

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  • wheel 1.jpg
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  • Lid ID 1.jpg

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#12 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2013 - 04:56 PM

Are you going to use media blasting?  Or electrolysis?



#13 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2013 - 07:42 PM

Neither, it sat outside for so long there is no paint left just bare metal,a little hard pack grease near the axles. Made a temporary set of handles today so I could get the shift lever mounted and out of the cultivator and the PTO linkage completely freed up. It is going to take a long time , trying to keep the cost down sometimes patience is the key. Really envy you guys in the US so many parts suppliers and reasonable, the rim new is 55 bucks Stateside 125 for a new 6.00 x 16 tractor tire .   Cheers Mike


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#14 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 04:22 PM

Well today I filled the transaxle unit up with diesel fuel and belted the input shaft to the Simplicity to spin the trans over and flush the case clean.After about 10 minute I drained it again and it did a lot of cleaning,you can see the rust where the oil drained off the gears over the years it sat. For it,s time it was quite advanced shaft drive no belts or chains,cast iron case with integral engine for precision alignment. A ring gear and drive pinion like your car or pickup truck  to start with and a side full time PTO pulley. It had a 2 part sump the upper main sump for the ring and pinion gears and a lower sump for the dog gear clutch and bull gears.Cheers Mike 

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#15 Mike Unwin OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 08:44 AM

Wow get a load of this beauty ! Thanks Parry for spotting it , it is a Empire converted to 4 wheel operation too bad the tires are shot.

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