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Error In Large Frame Wiring Schematic? Help!

bolens 1886 kohler k482 stator alternator electrical troubleshooting regulator rectifier regulator rectifier

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10 replies to this topic

#1 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 01:10 PM

I got the regulator/rectifier for my Bolens 1886 last week and installed it today.  However, something isn't right...

 

I have the 30 amp regulator. On the section for Alternator (Charging) systems,, page 7.9, it shows a sketch with one red wire from the stator going to the "+ Batt Reg" terminal and the other to the Reg terminal just above it.  On the next page it shows a schematic with one of the red wires going to the "Reg" terminal and the other going to the "- Batt" terminal which is connected to the chassis ground.

 

Which is correct?  I don't want to fry the reg/rec or the stator.

 

Thanks,

 

Utah Smitty



                       

#2 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 03:51 PM

Can you post a link to the manual? Without seeing it I can only guess, but I don't think you will want to connect any red wires to -batt.



#3 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 04:50 PM

Can you post a link to the manual? Without seeing it I can only guess, but I don't think you will want to connect any red wires to -batt.

 

I don't have software on this computer to take a screen shot and put it into a jpeg file, etc. I did upload the Kohler K482 Service manual, to the forum, which has a  line drawing on page 7.9--the 30 amp system shown on the right. 

 

You can find it here:

http://gardentractor...ice-manual-ocr/

 

It shows one red wire from the alternator going to the +Bat/Reg terminal, and one red wire going to the "Reg" terminal. The very next page 7-10, has a schematic of the wiring diagram, and it shows one of the red alternator wires going to the -Bat terminal which is grounded.  It's also confusing since the 2 AC current wires from the alternator are black...

 

Some of the wires were disconnected when I bought the tractor so I couldn't mark where they went before I took them off.

 

Smitty


Edited by Utah Smitty, August 23, 2013 - 05:17 PM.


#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 08:53 PM

Kohler 5 terminal regulator diagram.png

 

   Smitty,  I'll take a shot at this even though I've never worked with one of these 5 terminal regulators. I think the regulator should be connected as in the above diagram from page 7-10.  The diagram on 7-9 is showing a Red wire going to the battery. My interpretation is that the wire colour is Red but it is not one of the 2 red wires from the flywheel connector, but an external wire to the battery, which happens to be red also. The 2 red wires from the flywheel should be connected as shown in diagram on 7-10. 

   I'd do the check of the stator windings as directed to check the resistance in the red and black pairs to make sure it's connected as it should be. If it was messed with in the past it may not be wired as stock. Also check to make sure that the 2 black AC wires, and the Battery output terminal are not shorted to chassis(battery -) before you connect the battery to the system. 


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#5 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 09:12 PM

After studying the diagram I agree with Brian. This page has some general info http://smallenginein...om/?page_id=433

 The last paragraph state for 30a systems one red wire goes to ground and the other to the reg terminal.


Edited by AVB, August 23, 2013 - 09:22 PM.

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#6 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2013 - 10:39 PM

attachicon.gifKohler 5 terminal regulator diagram.png

 

   Smitty,  I'll take a shot at this even though I've never worked with one of these 5 terminal regulators. I think the regulator should be connected as in the above diagram from page 7-10.  The diagram on 7-9 is showing a Red wire going to the battery. My interpretation is that the wire colour is Red but it is not one of the 2 red wires from the flywheel connector, but an external wire to the battery, which happens to be red also. The 2 red wires from the flywheel should be connected as shown in diagram on 7-10. 

   I'd do the check of the stator windings as directed to check the resistance in the red and black pairs to make sure it's connected as it should be. If it was messed with in the past it may not be wired as stock. Also check to make sure that the 2 black AC wires, and the Battery output terminal are not shorted to chassis(battery -) before you connect the battery to the system. 

 

Thanks, Brian...

 

I'll try it that way and see what happens.  I've done all the tests shown in the Troubleshooting part--I don't have anything to measure a full 30 amp output, so I couldn't do that test. I did hook the two red wires together, started the engine, and looked for a max. 4 amp output at full speed.  My digital multimeter showed readings that fluctuated intermittently between 12 an 19 and all points in between.  It changed so fast the screen was basically flickering.  The trouble shooting guide says if it fails that test then it's bad regulator windings... this regulator is solid state so I'm not sure if they actually meant regulator or if they meant stator..

 

Anyway, I'll hook it up and see what it does.

 

Smitty



#7 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2013 - 06:04 AM

Thanks, Brian...

 

I'll try it that way and see what happens.  I've done all the tests shown in the Troubleshooting part--I don't have anything to measure a full 30 amp output, so I couldn't do that test. I did hook the two red wires together, started the engine, and looked for a max. 4 amp output at full speed.  My digital multimeter showed readings that fluctuated intermittently between 12 an 19 and all points in between.  It changed so fast the screen was basically flickering.  The trouble shooting guide says if it fails that test then it's bad regulator windings... this regulator is solid state so I'm not sure if they actually meant regulator or if they meant stator..

 

Anyway, I'll hook it up and see what it does.

 

Smitty

 

Smitty,

 

A DVM can have trouble with testing a low frequency signal like that.   I would not worry about the current testing. i'd do the other checks to make sure the wiring is OK and that you have the correct winding resistances and no short circuits to ground. if all that checks out and you don't get enough current you have a problem with the magnets or with the regulator itself. The regulator may be rated for 30 amps but the alternator may not be able to supply that much. As long as you get enough to keep the battery charged then the absolute value isn't that important. 


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#8 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2013 - 09:10 AM

Well, I hooked up the wires per the schematic on 7.10. The tractor started fine, but I only show 12.6 volts on the battery. If I briefly remove one of the cables, the engine dies.

 

If I leave the 2 red wired disconnected, the engine will start, and it will run even when a cable is briefly removed.  Voltage reading is 13.1 to 13.5 volts.  However, the ammeter shows a very slight discharge, which is greater if I turn the headlights on.  I am running a Mr. Gasket electric pump on it, but that doesn't draw 30 amps.

 

So, it appears I'm getting close to normal voltage, but little or no amps.  I suspect my regulator is bad.  I'm going to wire up the motorcycle reg/rec I bought and see how it does.

 

Thanks for everyone's input... I'll keep you posted.

 

Smitty



#9 AVB OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2013 - 12:39 PM

I would do that test again, but with just the red wire on the reg terminal disconnected to see what it does on the ammeter.


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#10 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 24, 2013 - 03:27 PM

I would do that test again, but with just the red wire on the reg terminal disconnected to see what it does on the ammeter.

 

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

Smitty



#11 Utah Smitty OFFLINE  

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Posted August 25, 2013 - 03:59 PM

Well, I think I've discovered the root of the problem.  Even though the stator windings show the right resistance, etc., I hadn't checked their resistance to ground until I got ready to install the Shindengen kit--basically there isn't any, so they essentially have a dead short.

 

I found a NOS stator on eBay and snapped it up--$90 incl shipping.  I'll get it installed.  With luck I can pull the flywheel without having to pull the engine...

 

Next I'll have to figure out if my reg/rect is any good... if not, I'll have to hook up the Shindengen...  we'll see what happens.

 

Smitty







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: bolens 1886, kohler k482, stator, alternator, electrical troubleshooting, regulator rectifier, regulator, rectifier