Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

212 Electrical Short


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 horseldy OFFLINE  

horseldy
  • New Member
  • Member No: 44449
  • 3 Thanks
  • 6 posts
  • Location: Somerset, PA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:13 AM

Thie is a continuation of the discussion from the PTO thread.

My  1987 Model 212 (M00212X420473 with engine Kohler 12 hp -#1613207073) has the "engine dies when the PTO switch is thrown" flu!  I started on the forum with the PTO thread as that is where things seemed to be pointing (with my luck it is always the most expensive part that needs to be replaced or repaired).  However a LJDD mechanic gave me this tip: " if you unplug the PTO and it still dies then it ain't the PTO".  So I started looking at the other possible causes.  The seat switch, transmission safety switch, wiring harnes, PTO switch, etc.  Last eve I replaced the Transmission switch, shifter quatrant plate (which activates that switch) and the PTO switch. That entire circuit was tested fro continuity and is ok.  I put the tractor back together and still get have the engine die when the PTO switch is thrown and the PTO is unplugged.  With the PTO plugged in the PTO strarted up but the volt gauge dropped into the negative area and the engine started the slow dying dance.  At 12:30 am I was too tired to even react! 

 

Do any of you have any suggestions or can give me the benifit of past experience? I just spent >$900.  on this for a general tune up, oil change, tranny flush and new deck bearings.  BTW: I had to put oil in the engine before I could mow the first time as is was 1/3 low (which was the same day this issue arose) and I put at least 18 oz of trans oil in last night (which I thought I should check while the rear deck was off.  I was replacing the seal on the shift lever as it had been leaking out of the top where the lever enters the transmission anyway).  Those examples of fine service from my Nearest JDD are why I am spending my spare time getting to know the works of the 212.  My plan is to check out the voltage regulator, coil and the harness in the tower (since everything to the rear has checked out.).  The ignition switch is on the list also.  Any other suggestions???

Any help is appriciated!

Thanks

 


  • JRJ said thank you

#2 Trav1s ONLINE  

Trav1s

    Got points?

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 5472
  • 2,602 Thanks
  • 3,750 posts
  • Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:48 AM

From what you are saying I believe it is fair to say the problem is in the circuit related to the PTO which includes safety switches.  I would start by testing each switch individually then test the sections of the harness between each switch.  Since you have already done the PTO and neutral safety switches I believe that only leaves ????  Do you have a wiring harness diagram?   Maybe some of the gear drive lovers can help you a bit more. 


Edited by Trav1s, August 22, 2013 - 10:33 AM.

  • horseldy said thank you

#3 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

boyscout862
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 8923
  • 9,769 Thanks
  • 7,534 posts
  • Location: N.E. Connecticut

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:54 AM

I've got to think that there is a short coming out of the PTO switch. I would check the wire from the switch to the PTO. If it is shorting there is probably a place where it rubs against something. Good Luck, Rick


  • Trav1s and horseldy have said thanks

#4 Trav1s ONLINE  

Trav1s

    Got points?

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 5472
  • 2,602 Thanks
  • 3,750 posts
  • Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:58 AM

Found this on WFM but it is for serial numbers 700001-190000

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 212 wiring 70001-190000.jpg

Edited by Trav1s, August 22, 2013 - 08:58 AM.

  • boyscout862 and horseldy have said thanks

#5 Trav1s ONLINE  

Trav1s

    Got points?

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 5472
  • 2,602 Thanks
  • 3,750 posts
  • Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 09:04 AM

Found these two with a bit of Google-foo.  Between these three you should have most of the range of 212 production covered.  The bad thing is the 30001-70000 is small.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 212WiringDiagram 190001-.jpg
  • 30001-70000  serial numbers.jpg

  • boyscout862 and horseldy have said thanks

#6 Trav1s ONLINE  

Trav1s

    Got points?

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 5472
  • 2,602 Thanks
  • 3,750 posts
  • Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 09:20 AM

Those are all the serial number breaks that I can come up with doing some madd google/yahoo searches.  Hopefully that will help.


  • boyscout862 said thank you

#7 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted August 22, 2013 - 10:18 AM

When you say the voltage gauge goes into the negative area do you mean the ampmeter on the dash? That indicates that too much current is being drawn and athere is a short somewhere. The PTO switch is a common cause of problems but will normally cause a bad connection and not a short. I would be looking for a short to the chassis in the wiring harness. I would also double check all the wiring. Often these tractors get repaired in a haphazard way with switches bypassed, wire colors changed etc. Another load could be connected to the PTO circuit somewhere through a past wiring change. The clutch itself should be 3-4 ohms from the lead to the chassis. If it's measuring a short then there is a problem there as well. You can sometimes have more than 1 problem going on at the same time.

  One other thing could be an issue. If your battery and charging system is not working properly then the amp meter will read negative even if the clutch is only drawing it's normal 4 amps of current. The battery should run the motor and clutch for quite a while unless it is in bad shape. So you need to see what the battery voltage is doing while this is happening. Good luck with it. it must be frustrating after spending all that $. There is an explanation for this, you just haven't found it yet. When troubleshooting problems like this leave nothing to chance. Verify the condition of all the wiring and look everywhere for a short.


  • boyscout862 and horseldy have said thanks

#8 jd.rasentrac ONLINE  

jd.rasentrac

    Admirer of DEERE enjoyneering and design!

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10327
  • 4,442 Thanks
  • 3,989 posts
  • Location: Niedervorschütz, Hessen, Deutschland

Posted August 22, 2013 - 10:20 AM

sadly I have no other docs from the 2xx series than Rev.

 

if this  will help youPSI3xxpto.jpg (maybe you'll find an new idea in it), I'll send it to you, only 8 sites, pdf


Edited by jd.rasentrac, August 22, 2013 - 10:22 AM.

  • horseldy said thank you

#9 horseldy OFFLINE  

horseldy
  • New Member
  • Member No: 44449
  • 3 Thanks
  • 6 posts
  • Location: Somerset, PA

Posted August 22, 2013 - 05:48 PM

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
tags

Thanks for all your posts.  I recall one of the key points Pirsig made in this book is when you are stumped and frustrated, walk away!  The issue will have to rest for the weekend as I have a meeting at a friends camp 300 miles away.  I am going to try to not even tell the story to my friends.  I will update you all next week.  Maybe 600 miles of contempletation and two days of distraction will help.


  • olcowhand and boyscout862 have said thanks

#10 lyall ONLINE  

lyall

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2180
  • 1,746 Thanks
  • 1,398 posts
  • Location: State Center, Iowa

Posted August 22, 2013 - 08:18 PM

here it the wiring for a 200 series

200 series pto wiring.png

 

 

I had the same thing happen on my 112 - electric  pto and lift

I replaced the pto switch and the problem stopped

 

 


  • Alc said thank you




Top