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1855 Front Pto Pulley Messed Up


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#1 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 09:01 AM

Typo on model # it is an1855 with 18 hp Onan engine. First I want to preface I'm a newbie with my first GT and just a few posts under my belt. My knowledge of terms is almost nill. Here I go. (refering to my earlier post about belts coming off and mower deck not working)  I have more than a sheared pin that is the cause. Looks like a poor patchwork job. Looks like someone has welded the pulley instead of fixing it correctly. Also the pic looking down from the top shows a ring dangling.  I hope the pics show the problem well. Thanks in advance for all helpful replies.

pulley2 .JPG pulley (1).JPG pulley3.JPG


Edited by Pudycatz, July 31, 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#2 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 10:10 AM

Oh my goodness, what a mess someone made!  Your spring steel straps are all broken that holds the contact ring in place, and those welds I can't understand at all!  Will it pull off the crankshaft?  Looks like the crank itself has been welded too???  You need to find a complete used PTO clutch & hope the crankshaft is ok.


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#3 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 11:21 AM

Will not pull off the shaft due to beads of weld, I don't need contact ring because I engage manually. Wow what a first GT to get my feet wet. Is there any place that would likely have what I need or do I need to hope someone will post one on Ebay?   I'm not gonna get down, I enjoy the challenge.


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#4 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 01:44 PM

I'm curious on how you engage it manually.

About your only luck is to find someone parting a machine and getting entire PTO assembly then re-wiring your tractor so it works on electrical switch.

I believe there maybe some other models besides Massey and Snapper that  used an Onan with same PTO setup, but i am unsure.

I can check, I knew a guy a couple months ago parting out a 1655 and had PTO on it, he may sell, but I doubt as his other tractor uses it too.



#5 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 03:15 PM

My problem keeps compounding. A machinist  told me to take off and bring to him and he assured me he could repair it. With all the welding,  I tried to take off the entire mechanism that goes into the crankcase. After loosening the 5 bolts that holds it on the block, I maybe pryed  it out a 1/4" away from engine block thinking it would slide out easily but it didn't and decided to re tighten the bolts. Long story short I need a new gasket. Question - Would someone guide me on how to remove? I'll need to put a new gasket on . Oil is shooting out all around upon starting. Thanks.


Edited by Pudycatz, July 31, 2013 - 03:25 PM.


#6 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 03:32 PM

I'm curious on how you engage it manually.

 

A cable attached to idler pulley. It's homemade. The cable is threaded out a hole in the frame and goes back to a pull bar below the seat. 



#7 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 03:34 PM

By the pics, it appears the inner race of the bearing was welded to the crankshaft.  The bolt that went into the crankshaft's center held a washer & this is all that held the parts that rotate with the crank to the crankshaft.  It appears the entire electromagnet has already been removed.  So there should be nothing except that weld holding all of that stuff on there.  Your best bet is to take the entire engine to the machinist so he can use a die grinder to get that weld to release the parts.  

  If you are not planning to get another PTO clutch unit, then I am assuming you will be using a cable or other manual device to tighten the idler pulley to engage the deck?  Note how this PTO pulley stands off away from the crankshaft end.  You will have to have this standoff to align to the bottom pulley, so just have your machinist make you a hub for your crankshaft that he can weld your pulley base to.


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#8 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 04:28 PM

By the pics, it appears the inner race of the bearing was welded to the crankshaft.  The bolt that went into the crankshaft's center held a washer & this is all that held the parts that rotate with the crank to the crankshaft.  It appears the entire electromagnet has already been removed.  So there should be nothing except that weld holding all of that stuff on there.  Your best bet is to take the entire engine to the machinist so he can use a die grinder to get that weld to release the parts.  

  If you are not planning to get another PTO clutch unit, then I am assuming you will be using a cable or other manual device to tighten the idler pulley to engage the deck?  Note how this PTO pulley stands off away from the crankshaft end.  You will have to have this standoff to align to the bottom pulley, so just have your machinist make you a hub for your crankshaft that he can weld your pulley base to.

thanks olcowhand, for the immediate future can you tell me what is involved in removing the entire mechanism (5 bolts) from the engine block. I need to replace the gasket or have one made so I can use tractor less mower deck for the present.



#9 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 04:37 PM

thanks olcowhand, for the immediate future can you tell me what is involved in removing the entire mechanism (5 bolts) from the engine block. I need to replace the gasket or have one made so I can use tractor less mower deck for the present.

 

Once you get the remains of the clutch off the crank, it's as simple as removing the bolts & slipping the rear bearing plate off.  While you have it off, I'd advise putting in a new crankshaft seal as well.  There may or may not be a separate thrust bearing between the plate & the crankshaft on the inside.  Some have the thrust bearing integrated into the rear main bearing, while later models had it separate.  Once you get the plate off, you can post a pic if you're not sure.


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#10 Luke ONLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 05:21 PM

Hmmm! What a mess! I'm wondering why someone would weld a clutch to a crankshaft when all that's needed is a 1/4" square key stock and a bolt with washer to hold it all together!? I'm thinking your gonna find either your key way on crankshaft or key way on clutch is all egged out and won't hold anymore. Good luck.
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#11 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 06:28 PM

I'm gonna take olcowhand's advice and take engine to a machinist. I'm also gonna attempt to remove engine. Is there a thread or can someone please direct me on what is involved for engine removal. Any special tools needed etc. ?



#12 Luke ONLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2013 - 10:53 PM

No thread on engine removal that I know of on here. It's really quite simple to remove the Onan engine. No special tools needed other than common tools......box end/open end wrenches, deep well and shallow 3/8 drive and 1/2 drive sockets/ratchets, regular and Phillips screwdrivers, pry bars, to name a few tools needed and unless u have a strong back I'd rig up some type of lifting devic for removing engine from tractor and loading into pickup.
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#13 gtcsreg OFFLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2013 - 05:43 AM

I'd check the manuals available from this site before engine removal.  Mine is a Kohler so don't know much about Onan, but the manual for mine gave step by step on best way to remove the engine.  Good luck.


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#14 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2013 - 08:23 AM

Engine removal is not that bad, just time and patience.

Of course, fuel line need removed, I also removed gas tank for extra working room.

unhook electrical wiring, pull it back, remove neg battery cable from motor or frame, left front if I recall.

throttle and choke cable.

There is a spring loaded tensioning bracket on back of motor/frame. You will need to loosen that nut on the threaded rod. This loosens the belts for removal.

If yours has the upper driveshaft for rear PTO, you will ned to remove the pin on driveshaft to be able to slide of motor shaft.

There is also a round clip holding the lower driveshaft tensioning arm to a pin on the lower left side of the motor cradle. Remove that clip and it will slide off. Check the bronze bushings inside the hole, mine were almost gone they were so worn.

Motor is bolted into a cradle which is then bolted to frame via some rubber cushioned bolts. Since you are just having front crank addressed, I would just unbolt it from frame and leave it bolted to motor.

Good advice for a strong friend or some time of engine hoist or overhead lift, motor is pretty heavy.

 

The pulleys are supposed to come off motor as assembly, as Olecow stated, the rear 5 bolt cover is crank/bearing  cover, it can only be removed once pulleys slide off. The PO or whoever did that work needs a welder stuck up their.... well, you know! I'm dealing with PO issues on mine as he bypassed all safetys and switches, rigged broekn starter,  and removed rear PTO stuff instead of doing it correctly.

Also as olecow stated, if you are just going to have machinist preoper repair what you have and keep the manual engagement, make sure he measures everything before removal so he can make a proper spacer to keep your pulleys aligned.

 

While apart, check condition of belts and ujoints, pivot bearing. I found mine to all be needing replaced when I pulled motor.

Good time to check starter bolts too, reason I had to pull my motor cause one broke off ( yes, have to pull motor to access starter) , other was loose and falling out.

 

 

Here's what you'll have when you're done. I do not have rear PTO driveshaft.

 

 MFnomotor.jpg


Edited by TAHOE, August 01, 2013 - 08:25 AM.

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#15 Pudycatz OFFLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2013 - 11:00 AM

Engine removal is not that bad, just time and patience.

Of course, fuel line need removed, I also removed gas tank for extra working room.

unhook electrical wiring, pull it back, remove neg battery cable from motor or frame, left front if I recall.

throttle and choke cable.

There is a spring loaded tensioning bracket on back of motor/frame. You will need to loosen that nut on the threaded rod. This loosens the belts for removal.

If yours has the upper driveshaft for rear PTO, you will ned to remove the pin on driveshaft to be able to slide of motor shaft.

There is also a round clip holding the lower driveshaft tensioning arm to a pin on the lower left side of the motor cradle. Remove that clip and it will slide off. Check the bronze bushings inside the hole, mine were almost gone they were so worn.

Motor is bolted into a cradle which is then bolted to frame via some rubber cushioned bolts. Since you are just having front crank addressed, I would just unbolt it from frame and leave it bolted to motor.

Good advice for a strong friend or some time of engine hoist or overhead lift, motor is pretty heavy.

 

The pulleys are supposed to come off motor as assembly, as Olecow stated, the rear 5 bolt cover is crank/bearing  cover, it can only be removed once pulleys slide off. The PO or whoever did that work needs a welder stuck up their.... well, you know! I'm dealing with PO issues on mine as he bypassed all safetys and switches, rigged broekn starter,  and removed rear PTO stuff instead of doing it correctly.

Also as olecow stated, if you are just going to have machinist preoper repair what you have and keep the manual engagement, make sure he measures everything before removal so he can make a proper spacer to keep your pulleys aligned.

 

While apart, check condition of belts and ujoints, pivot bearing. I found mine to all be needing replaced when I pulled motor.

Good time to check starter bolts too, reason I had to pull my motor cause one broke off ( yes, have to pull motor to access starter) , other was loose and falling out.

 

 

Here's what you'll have when you're done. I do not have rear PTO driveshaft.

 

 

Hey Tahoe, thanks a lot. I very much appreciate the time and thought you gave on post. 


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