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Kohler K341 Timing And Other Issues.

kohler k341 timing points

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#1 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 06:55 AM

Some probably seen the thread on the Bush Hog HD-12 where I found a Kohler K341 to do an engine swap with. Got everything swapped and once I had it running realized the governor wasn't working. I pulled the engine apart and found the governor gear wasn't on the shaft. Almost like someone pulled the retaining screw for some reason and it fell off and thankfully just rested in the corner without taking anything out.

 

Fast forward to getting it all back together and running good. I had taken the tractor to the Menges Mills show last weekend. It has been running good other than the bad battery. Went for a longer ride pulling a trailer and than later went for another ride to pick up a disc plow and it was almost like it loaded up to the point it all but died and almost sounded like and engine that started to run backwards. I shut it off and it fired right off and was good till we got back. 

 

Once we got home and went to unload it off the trailer it just didn't seem right in the mid to top end. I than realized I had a mopar coil which requires an external resistor so I thought the points may have gotten burnt up causing poor timing. So I ordered a proper coil, also got new points and I also got a carb kit since the float bowl was leaking a little. 

 

All of that prior I had a straight pipe on the engine but I was tired of all the noise so I wanted to put the original muffler on since I was going to be working on it again. This muffler is the same one I had on when I had the Wisconsin in the tractor and that engine seemed very anemic in power.

 

I got the new points installed and set the points gap at .020 per the manual. The old ones didn't look too burnt but they definitely didn't look the best. I also got the new coil and carb kit installed. Fired it up and it started easily and idles perfectly. Ran the throttle up on it and it sounds like it is fighting to reach top speed and it was shooting 3 to 4" blue flames out of the muffler and also when bringing it down to idle it would pop with a larger orange flame. Shut it off and it would backfire with an orange flame also.

 

So I figured the timing may be off since backfiring is usually a sign of timing being off especially with flames since that is a sign of un-burnt gas in the exhaust. I had to pull the flywheel shroud off so I could get to the timing marks and mark them with white chalk. I got them lined up and set the points with my continuity / voltage tester where it just broke continuity and tightened everything down. Fired it back up and it seems to start even faster now but still shows the same signs in the upper rpm with the flames out of the muffler and popping after shutdown. 

 

I didn't notice these issues when I had the straight pipe on so I am wondering if the muffler could be causing these problems? Obviously if the muffler was clogged it would make it hard for the engine to run. I didn't think to look in to the muffler (not that I would have been able to see anything) before I put it on and welded it to the pipe. I might take a sharpened metal rod and poke a could holes in the baffle if I can. I would like to see what you guys think.


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#2 Guest_gravely-power_*

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 06:59 AM

I would say you have a carb problem. The back firing is caused by a lean condition.


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#3 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 07:03 AM

I would say you have a carb problem. The back firing is caused by a lean condition.

 

I can richen the high speed needle to the point it smokes like a diesel and it still does the flames and popping. Actually I think it may be a little worse the richer I make it.



#4 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 07:12 AM

Did you replace the condenser?  A bad condenser can cause something like that. 

 

Is the motor running at the right RPM?

 

Ben W.


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#5 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 07:17 AM

I didn't get a chance to put the tach back on it yet but will do that today. I ran out of time last night. I did get a new condenser with the points. Both were Kohler parts, same as the coil.


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#6 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 07:48 AM

What kind of carb is it?  

 

The muffler could be plugged up causing heat to build up and the unspent fuel that makes it into the muffler  causes the flame.  I would be concerned that it could eventually backfire and wipe out the muffler.


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#7 NUTNDUN ONLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 07:57 AM

It is a Carter / Kohler branded carb. Has the idle and high speed adjustable jets.


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#8 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 08:01 AM

It is a Carter / Kohler branded carb. Has the idle and high speed adjustable jets.

 

Good deal!  One less variable to fight.  I think you are going in the right direction and would consider opening up that muffler.



#9 JDBrian ONLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 08:22 AM

Since you have made so many changes since the original problem appeared I would remove the muffler and verify that your problems are gone. You may need to find another muffler if that one is blocked. It may be easier than cutting that one open and repairing it, then welding it back up. If you can make a decent seal with an air hose somehow you could try blowing compressed air through it in both directions to see what kind of flow you get. That may even blow out what's blocking it. If air flows freely through it then it's likely not the problem. 



#10 shorty OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 11:32 AM

Back when I had my K341 apart, I didn't get the linkage from carb to governor set right. That caused rough idle and backfiring. Just a bit of adjusting found the problem.



#11 coldone ONLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 12:13 PM

I am having a similar issue with a K341 too. Flames out the muffler, backfiring, etc. I pulled it all apart and found that the valves are not sealing. Thats as far as I got before other stuff got in the way. I am waiting on taking it in for a valve job.



#12 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 12:14 PM

I was reading while coldone posted.  I too lean to valve sealing issues.



#13 IamSherwood ONLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 12:20 PM

Does it still back fire after ignition is turned off, if you let it idle for about 30-45 seconds?



#14 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 01:11 PM

Did you do the "INITIAL GOVERNOR ADJUSTMENT" ?

Mine, I ran rough and erratic, I tried everything I could think of, still ran rough, after I did the initial governor adjustment as the manual says, right away it ran smooth and steady, sounded like a different engine, much more power.



#15 chris m ONLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2013 - 01:32 PM

George I am leaning in the direction of Daniel and coldone on this problem. I am not sure if you checked the valve lash when it was apart or not? At minimum I would check valve lash to be sure one of the valves are not running with to small of a gap. If all is good in there then I would pop the head and check to see if the valves are sealing when closed.

 

Maybe it will be just a simple adjustment for you? I hope so any how. Good luck!

 

I am also saying this because I have had this issue on 3 engines just this year. One Kohler and 2 Briggs. And on all 3 it was the exhaust valve that wasn't sealing completely. And by eye they all looked great, but when spraying WD-40 on them and letting it sit, the WD-40 would leak into the exhaust port. At least Kohlers are adjustable! Both Briggs I had to grind the valves :wallbanging:







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