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Ariens S-14H Keep Dying When Engaging Pto


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#1 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2013 - 11:50 PM

Hello, trying to figure out a solution to this perplexing case. I have posted this thread in another forum with still no solution, hopefully someone here can assist.

 

My new to me Ariens s-14 (931005) runs great, I just replaced the points, condenser, spark plug, battery, fuel filter, fuel lines, rebuilt the carb, new throttle shaft and bushing, new fuel pump, new tires front and back. Needless to say, I have spent time and $$ getting her back into shape, but I am having this pto issue.

Every time I pull the PTO out to engage it while running, the tractor dies..almost like a safety switch engages and kills the engine. If I engage the pto while the engine is running it starts to die, then quickly push the pto switch back in, the engine comes right back to life and works fine. If I keep the pto engaged, put it in park, turn to start it, nothing happens( which is normal). If I disengage the pto, put in park, the tractor starts with no issues. 

The pto engages when I throw current on it and I have checked the service manual, and all of the wiring checks out correctly. I have 12v to the PTO switch orange wire with the ignition to the on position, I checked the park safety switch (purple wires), and that's working fine. The only thing I haven't checked is the black wire from the PTO to the 6A circuit breaker.

What is the black wire going back to the ignition switch do? Is this my issue? I am grabbing at straws currently, but my best guess is a safety switch is bad. Let me know your thoughts, I have my multimeter handy, and more than willing to get my hands dirty.

Thanks for your time.

 

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#2 chris m ONLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 12:37 AM

From your print the Blk wire with the 6 amp breaker is your main power to your PTO clutch. 

 

The Orange wire and the Purple are the starting circuit.

 

It sounds like you have a short in either the PTO coil or the PTO switch (or Ignition)? Have you tried running a direct 12 volt jumper wire to your PTO while the engine is running? That would tell you if the PTO it self was good or not, and eliminate any problem from a faulty PTO switch or Ignition switch.

 

I'll start with this. It could be any number of things. Also what is hooked to the PTO, a deck?


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#3 lyall ONLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 01:04 AM

first welcome to the forums - glad you are here - great place for help

 

thanks for the wiring diagram - it help solve a lot of problems with the wiring

 

since you get a multimeter check the safety switch and also check the pto switch

 

if the safety switch tests okay - then check the pto switch 

 

if both check good  then check the pto clutch

 

here are a site that might help

http://www.messicks....tricClutch.aspx

 

there is also the way the test the pto 

first you have to remove the pto clutch

take the pto clutch apart - put a piece of steel and with a battery charger or battery connect it to the pto clutch - try to remove the steal form the pto clutch - if you can the pto clutch is bad

 

at this time I can not find the web site showing how to do this test - I hope somebody can how

 

good luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#4 Wm McNett OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 02:40 AM

I have 12v to the PTO switch orange wire with the ignition to the on position

 

that 12v is only for the starter solenoid

You'll also need 12v on the black wire at 6amp circuit breaker with the key in the run position for the clutch to work

neither of which should have anything to do with killing the engine, unless the PTO clutch is shorted to ground and then it should just trip the 6amp circuit breaker, or unless the PTO shaft is locked up then I'd guess you would smell and hear some smoked squealing belts.

 

unplug the PTO clutch, one wire connector near the front left of the engine, with the key in the run position and the PTO switch engaged/pulled is there 12v on the blue wire going to the coil?


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#5 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 04:43 AM

Welcome to GTT. I'd take the belt off the PTO and then see what happens. I've had similar problems occasionally  and each time it was a frozen bearing on the attachment. Good Luck, Rick


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#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 05:15 AM

I was going to suggest 2 things. Electrically I would test to see if the 12volts at the coil is still present when the PTO switch is pulled out. That will tell you if the power to the coil is being interupted. Mechanically I would disconnect the load from the PTO to see if that's the issue. Doing these 2 things, which have already been suggested will go a long way towards finding the problem. It's hard to tell what exactly is going on in the diagram without knowing exactly how the ignition switch functions.


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#7 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 05:18 AM

Welcome to the forum! Just a shot in the dark, but are you sure you have the correct ignition switch?

Thanks for including the wiring diagram. I agree that the black wire feeds the PTO. Do the lights work okay?


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#8 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 06:23 AM

Welcome to GTTalk!

 

If everything is right, with an electric clutch, you should hear it pop in and out with the engine off, and everything hooked up right as you pull the switch.

 

I imagine you have a bad switch or wire somewhere.  For test purposes, there is no reason why you can't jump the seat switch (not to leave it that way, of course) and override that for a few minutes while you are testing. 

 

Ben W.


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#9 larryd OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 01:18 PM

Sounds like a short or bad switch to me

larryd
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#10 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2013 - 05:41 PM

:welcometogttalk:

I think not to long ago someone else had this problem, I will try to find that thread again. I think it might have been bad wires. A simple way to test would be make a new circuit straight from the battery. 


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#11 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2013 - 12:40 AM

From your print the Blk wire with the 6 amp breaker is your main power to your PTO clutch. 

 

The Orange wire and the Purple are the starting circuit.

 

It sounds like you have a short in either the PTO coil or the PTO switch (or Ignition)? Have you tried running a direct 12 volt jumper wire to your PTO while the engine is running? That would tell you if the PTO it self was good or not, and eliminate any problem from a faulty PTO switch or Ignition switch.

 

I'll start with this. It could be any number of things. Also what is hooked to the PTO, a deck?

Yes, the deck was attached, I removed the deck/pto shaft and it cuts out still.



#12 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2013 - 12:44 AM

From your print the Blk wire with the 6 amp breaker is your main power to your PTO clutch. 

 

The Orange wire and the Purple are the starting circuit.

 

It sounds like you have a short in either the PTO coil or the PTO switch (or Ignition)? Have you tried running a direct 12 volt jumper wire to your PTO while the engine is running? That would tell you if the PTO it self was good or not, and eliminate any problem from a faulty PTO switch or Ignition switch.

 

I'll start with this. It could be any number of things. Also what is hooked to the PTO, a deck?

So, just pull a cable from the battery positive directly to the pto wire correct? I'll try it tonight.



#13 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2013 - 12:44 AM

Welcome to GTTalk!

 

If everything is right, with an electric clutch, you should hear it pop in and out with the engine off, and everything hooked up right as you pull the switch.

 

I imagine you have a bad switch or wire somewhere.  For test purposes, there is no reason why you can't jump the seat switch (not to leave it that way, of course) and override that for a few minutes while you are testing. 

 

Ben W.

No seat switch on the s-14h



#14 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2013 - 12:45 AM

:welcometogttalk:

I think not to long ago someone else had this problem, I will try to find that thread again. I think it might have been bad wires. A simple way to test would be make a new circuit straight from the battery. 

Thanks, I am losing my mind on this one, its got me all crazy.



#15 pvk OFFLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2013 - 12:46 AM

Welcome to the forum! Just a shot in the dark, but are you sure you have the correct ignition switch?

Thanks for including the wiring diagram. I agree that the black wire feeds the PTO. Do the lights work okay?

HI Kenny, the light work great, both front & rear come on when pulling out the light switch on the tractor.


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