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Mf 16,hydro Quit Suddenly.

mf 16 hydro trouble

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#1 mh44d OFFLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 08:06 AM

Mowed lawn with this tractor last week, everything worked 100% with hydro, and deck lift, no troubles at all. Oil I'm using in hydro is dextron III, this is what was in system when I bought tractor last summer. I replace hydro oil and filter at that time. Didn't mow with it last year, only got deck working for this spring. Probably have about 15-20 hours on tractor since fluids were replaced. Hydro worked good, was very strong, shifted forward to reverse well, never slowed on hills, very responsive. Same with deck, and 3pt lift, strong, no waiting time, worked very well. This week my son got tractor out to mow lawn. He noticed right from start up that deck didn't want to lift, He didn't think anything more about this problem, and drove tractor out of shed, and up closer to driveway to put gas in tank. He re-checked fluid levels after gas up, all were good. Started tractor to find that deck won't lift still, and now hydro doesn't work either to move tractor. When I got home from work I looked into problem. Hydro oil looks clean, doesn't smell burnt, level is good. Drive shaft is turning pump, couplers are good. I removed both the relief valves for lift, and for hydro, neither seemed stuck, or dirty. Neither relief valve spring is broken, or distorted. Hydro, or deck lift still don't work. I removed charging pump from front of transmission. Gerotor is a little sloppy on shaft, I can spin it back and fourth on shaft maybe about 1/8"to1/4". I don't see any reason why it won't still pump oil. Oil supply isn't restricted up to charge pump. I might try heavier oil today(10w40)and a fresh filter, but I doubt it will help anything at this point. I know that there was no oil leaving charge pump, going to deck lift valve before I started to take things apart, because I removed pipe from fitting at top of charge pump that goes between charge pump and lift valve. (That would be pipe at right side fitting at top of charge pump.)There was no oil leaving charge pump, or returning back to charge pump from this pipe conection when engine was running, and pump shaft was turning. This is what led me to believe that there might be a problem with charge pump. I guess I might try putting it back together with heavier oil and new filter, but I'm doubtful anything has changed.Any i 


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#2 IlovemyCub OFFLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 08:56 AM

Hello, welcome to GTT. I know that oil does go bad after 23 hours of work. The oil I would say to use in the tranny is SAE 80w 90. Thats what I use in my Cub Cadet, good luck with it! Ian 


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#3 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 08:59 AM

Welcome to GTtalk.  I know this might be to simple but I have seen all to often someone tear their bike apart only to find the kill switch on.  So the question is, most hydro's I have seen have a mechanism for allowing the tranny to free wheel.  Have you check that?


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#4 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 09:48 AM

I don't think that you should get that kind of failure, because

you're using Dexron III. That's what I run in my 2-14's and my 16.I've never had that kind of a problem.

Sounds like a mechanical issue in the pump or....?. I've never had to get into mine, so sorry but I can't

help you there.

 

Good thought Bill, about a override valve, but I'm 99.9999% sure they don't have one.

 

MH44D, There are a few guys around here, that are real good with those pumps. Hopefully they'll

be able to help you out.

Oh, Welcome to GTT. :wave:


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#5 ducky ONLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 10:33 AM

Do not use 80/90 gear lube.
Dextron 3 is just fine. I agree with you on that your charge pump is this not pumping oil.
Let's try 2 put some Vaseline in the charge pump to help it pick up prime. Also pay very close attention 2 the pin that drives the charge pump gear. I have seen those sheer. It does sound like yours is OK from your description. I beleive that for some reason the pump all of prime while sitting.
Sent by Ducky from my Motorola Droid M


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#6 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 01:18 PM

The gyrotor should not have that much play on the shaft.  If you didn't pull the gyrotor off, I'd guess there is damage on the back side of the gyrotor. It should have just a tiny amount of movement on the shaft.  I've seen the pins grind out a groove in the back of the gyrotors.  


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#7 mh44d OFFLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 05:24 PM

The gyrotor should not have that much play on the shaft.  If you didn't pull the gyrotor off, I'd guess there is damage on the back side of the gyrotor. It should have just a tiny amount of movement on the shaft.  I've seen the pins grind out a groove in the back of the gyrotors.  

 Haven't got back to it yet, but I tried to slide gyrator off of shaft, and it didn't want to come. Should I force it off with pry bar to check drive pin and back of gyrator? If pin or gyrotor are worn bad, where do I find new parts? Thanks mh44d. 



#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted June 29, 2013 - 09:14 PM

 Haven't got back to it yet, but I tried to slide gyrator off of shaft, and it didn't want to come. Should I force it off with pry bar to check drive pin and back of gyrator? If pin or gyrotor are worn bad, where do I find new parts? Thanks mh44d. 

 

Almost guarantee with it being snug that the back side is eaten up.  It should slide off like pancakes on melted butter.  No idea on new parts as I always end up finding used.


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#9 mh44d OFFLINE  

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:45 AM

Almost guarantee with it being snug that the back side is eaten up.  It should slide off like pancakes on melted butter.  No idea on new parts as I always end up finding used.

Yep! You were right! I pried gear ahead, and sure enough, drive pin is broken. Back of gyrator is tore up bad too. Any idea where I might find good used pin, and gyrator? I might be able to get local machine shop to repair my gyrator, but I'm not sure if he could reproduce a pin that hard. He could likely make a solid pin out of mild steel to do the same job though? I'll try on Monday to locate some new parts from local massey dealer, but I'm guessing that they won't have any luck finding new parts either.  Thanks again for your help, mh44d.


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#10 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 08:16 AM

A mild pin would never hold.  It is pretty much a needle roller bearing, so possibly match one up from a bearing?  This is the same unit used on some other tractors, so I'll look around for sources.  As to that gyrotor, it'll be horribly expensive new if you did find one.  One for a JD is $270, and sold as a set with the outer rotor.  It may be possible the machine shop can cut a new slot for the pin on the opposite side of the gyrotor.  I think it would still mesh fine if flipped.


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#11 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 08:32 PM

Thanks Dan for sharing your knowledge on this issue. :thumbs:

I hope I never need it, but I'm bookmarking this thread.



#12 mh44d OFFLINE  

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Posted July 05, 2013 - 07:57 PM

Found gyrotor gear set at local Massey dealer, part # 1042504m91, cost $230.00. New 1/8" x 1" headless pin, part # 1042504m91, cost $15.40. I didn't price seal # 833777m1, or "o"-ring #368486x1, but I guess that I'll order and replace them too, along with oil(dextron III) and filter. Didn't have any luck finding used gyrotor gear set. Thanks for everyone's help. I'll make sure to let everyone know if this solves hydro troubles when I get parts in. Thanks again, mh44d.                                                                          


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#13 mh44d OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2013 - 05:48 AM

Well folks! Installed new gyrotor set, new pin, new front seal, new  "o" ring, fresh dextron iii oil and filter, fired her up, and hydro and lift work like new once again. Mowed our lawn and all worked very well. Back to her old self. Thanks everyone for all the advice, worked out very well in the end.   mh44d.    


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#14 HowardsMF155 ONLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2013 - 06:55 AM

Excellent news!  Thanks for the update.  Now that you have her fixed, you need to take a picture or two and post it for us to see!



#15 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2013 - 10:36 AM

Well folks! Installed new gyrotor set, new pin, new front seal, new "o" ring, fresh dextron iii oil and filter, fired her up, and hydro and lift work like new once again. Mowed our lawn and all worked very well. Back to her old self. Thanks everyone for all the advice, worked out very well in the end. mh44d.

Great news.
Have to ask about the call sign you have there. I assume you have a 44D? Boy were those brutes in their day.

When taking pics of the 16, snap one of the 44 too pls.




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