Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

5 HH120 Tecumsehs


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#16 mjodrey OFFLINE  

mjodrey

    Accumulator

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 92
  • 2,343 Thanks
  • 13,481 posts
  • Location: Upper Granville, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted November 18, 2010 - 07:16 AM

Doug, that is an awesome stockpile of Tecumsehs. :thumbs:

:iagree:

#17 FirefyterEmt OFFLINE  

FirefyterEmt

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 610
  • 425 Thanks
  • 849 posts
  • Location: Northeast Connecticut

Posted November 18, 2010 - 08:25 AM

It appears you went with the Mopar module? Correct?


Yes, I used the Mopar ignition module, coil & restistor. This is way to go (IMHO) if you have a system that fails. I would go nuts if I had bought a $200 SSI pack used and it died in a few months. As you can see, my parts were all used as well. (Other than the switch)

#18 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted November 18, 2010 - 06:53 PM

One of these engines came out of my last Hydro I got and it died from ignition failure due to improper wiring, wrong ignition key switch, that one is going to get a good stator put back in it, the SSI unit test good so will see what happens when it gets reinstalled in the tractor.
The other 3 loose ones will be taken apart and mix+match to make the best of the 1 of the 3. Since I have 1 SSI unit that test good hopefully I can get 1 good running engine.
If both the SSI units fail then I'll have to look at other options.
The engine that's in the 12g I'll do that one last.

#19 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 19, 2011 - 09:04 PM

Update pulled 4 of these motors apart to see what I got.
Surprisingly the one that came out of the last MF12Hydra I got, the one I thought would be the best is the worst of the bunch, the only one with cylinder wall damage, nice 1" long score in it and damaged piston as well. Must be from some foreign object in there.
I have another one that I got with another MF12Hydra, it was incomplete and I was told that it was rebuilt but failed shortly after, this one has the tightest rod bearing, measures 1 to 1 1/2 thou. all the others are 2 to 3 thou. mostly 3 thousands. Checked with plastigage.
Another 1 of these engines is bored out 20 thou. and looks the best inside, but it has a loose bottom end, 3 thou. You can actually feel it when you move the crank back and forth with the piston at TDC. All the rest are standard.
Something I notice is all of these engines are SSI, no points but every one of them has a decompressor on the cam. I always though that SSI engines don't have decompressor because of the way the ignition works. Learn something new everyday.
With all these parts I can make one good one and if I buy a rod a 2nd.

I still have 1 more HH120 in a tractor plus a spare HH100. The engine in my 66 MF10 I got a rebuild kit for it last week and that will go in soon.

#20 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,237 Thanks
  • 28,598 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted February 19, 2011 - 09:15 PM

Ed has done a lot of playing with these engines, there are 2 kinds of older SSI units and a newer version. Testing for each is different, as well as possible repair techniques. This seems to be his most concise website: Engines&Magnets.

If I can offer any add'l insight (very, very limited), let me know Doug. I love what he refers to as the tickle test. LOL. It works very well tho.

BTW does anyone have any experience with Hall Effect sensors? I think they could be used to build a trigger on the inside using existing magnets. Mulling this idea over for a few days now...

Nice herd of Tecumseh's, good luck!

#21 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 19, 2011 - 10:01 PM

There is a lot of info there and he seems to have more as time goes on.
The point I was trying to make is that when Tecumseh brought out the SSI unit it was designed in part to replace the decompressor cam, it does this by delivering spark at different times.
When cranking to start the spark is at TDC
When the engine starts and RPMs rise above 800 I think, the spark is advanced 17 to 2o deg.
The old points, if settup the way they say delivers spark at 20 deg advanced all the time, so to start this engine they used a decompressor on the cam for the exhaust valve.

These 4 engines I just took apart do not have points, no points cover, pushrod nothing.
They are SSI engines with decomprssors on the cam, if you look at the cam you can see the spot where the pushrod for the points would rub on but it is not machined.
These engines have both, decompressor and 2 stage ign. timing.

I have 2 SSI units with stator coils that test good, if it ends up that there not then I think I'd rather use a new trigger coil with the 12volt electronic ignition, Mopar, GM, Ford, doesn't really matter which, probably go with GM because it's the smallest module.

For me to send a SSI unit out by the time I get it back and pay for everything, the new trigger coil probably cheaper, remember I live in Canada. I think you can make those trigger coils, have to check that out.

#22 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,237 Thanks
  • 28,598 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted February 19, 2011 - 10:14 PM

Doug, be aware that there are 2 different test procedures for the older 2 (inside the flywheel) SSI's. The measurements aren't even similar, just don't dispose of any until you double check for the 2nd style.

#23 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 19, 2011 - 10:20 PM

Doug, be aware that there are 2 different test procedures for the older 2 (inside the flywheel) SSI's. The measurements aren't even similar, just don't dispose of any until you double check for the 2nd style.


From what I know and seen the HH100s and up are outside units, I might be wrong, but all the ones I have are that way.

#24 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 19, 2011 - 10:29 PM

Here's a question for ya If I take a connecting rod and the crankshaft to a machine shop can they re-size the rod to the crank?
Or is it cheaper to just buy a new rod?

#25 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

Texas Deere and Horse

    RED Wild Hogs, Horses & Deeres

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1435
  • 14,464 Thanks
  • 15,392 posts
  • Location: East of San Antonio Texas

Posted February 19, 2011 - 11:04 PM

Doug ,It depends on how heavy the main bearing area of the rod is. To do this, you have to close up the rod from top to bottom until its small enough side to side, by milling the cap and rod where they bolt together. There has to be enough material there to not weaken the rod. I hope I explaned this to makes sense to you.

#26 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

Texas Deere and Horse

    RED Wild Hogs, Horses & Deeres

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1435
  • 14,464 Thanks
  • 15,392 posts
  • Location: East of San Antonio Texas

Posted February 19, 2011 - 11:09 PM

There is a lot of info there and he seems to have more as time goes on.
The point I was trying to make is that when Tecumseh brought out the SSI unit it was designed in part to replace the decompressor cam, it does this by delivering spark at different times.
When cranking to start the spark is at TDC
When the engine starts and RPMs rise above 800 I think, the spark is advanced 17 to 2o deg.
The old points, if settup the way they say delivers spark at 20 deg advanced all the time, so to start this engine they used a decompressor on the cam for the exhaust valve.

These 4 engines I just took apart do not have points, no points cover, pushrod nothing.
They are SSI engines with decomprssors on the cam, if you look at the cam you can see the spot where the pushrod for the points would rub on but it is not machined.
These engines have both, decompressor and 2 stage ign. timing.

I have 2 SSI units with stator coils that test good, if it ends up that there not then I think I'd rather use a new trigger coil with the 12volt electronic ignition, Mopar, GM, Ford, doesn't really matter which, probably go with GM because it's the smallest module.

For me to send a SSI unit out by the time I get it back and pay for everything, the new trigger coil probably cheaper, remember I live in Canada. I think you can make those trigger coils, have to check that out.



Doug, Do you subscribe to LAGC mag.. They had a 2 or 3 part story in it about Tec. ignition and it explaned a bunch.

#27 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,237 Thanks
  • 28,598 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted February 20, 2011 - 02:26 AM

From what I know and seen the HH100s and up are outside units, I might be wrong, but all the ones I have are that way.


The outside units are the bettor ones, easier to do a up-conversion on. The original HH120 from my SS12 (68) had the old style, in-the-flywheel-SSI. Even the Flywheels (with pins) are worth a couple of $ as they'd allow you to do a pickup & coil conversion on one with the pack inside (from what I understand of what I read online)

#28 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 20, 2011 - 08:25 AM

Doug ,It depends on how heavy the main bearing area of the rod is. To do this, you have to close up the rod from top to bottom until its small enough side to side, by milling the cap and rod where they bolt together. There has to be enough material there to not weaken the rod. I hope I explaned this to makes sense to you.


That's kinda what I thought would have to be done, I have 3 assemblies, crank and rod, I know a machine shop close by, I'll have to try them out.

#29 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 20, 2011 - 08:29 AM

The outside units are the bettor ones, easier to do a up-conversion on. The original HH120 from my SS12 (68) had the old style, in-the-flywheel-SSI. Even the Flywheels (with pins) are worth a couple of $ as they'd allow you to do a pickup & coil conversion on one with the pack inside (from what I understand of what I read online)

As I said before learn something new everyday, everywhere I looked for HH or Massey10, 12 all I saw was outside units.
You know out of the 4 engines I took apart there are 3 different blocks, quit different but all HH120s.
BTW I won't be throwing anything out, these parts can be hard to find when you need them.

#30 DH1 OFFLINE  

DH1

    Electric Tractors

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 62
  • 4,585 Thanks
  • 5,295 posts
  • Location: Markham Ontario Canada

Posted February 20, 2011 - 08:31 AM

Doug, Do you subscribe to LAGC mag.. They had a 2 or 3 part story in it about Tec. ignition and it explaned a bunch.

No I haven't, I think I should though.




Top