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Jd 400- Gets Hot, Runs Rough, Blows Smoke And Fire Out Muffler And Dies


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#1 nathanatfork OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 08:45 PM

After mowing with my John Deere 400 for a while, it starts to blow some smoke out of the muffler and runs rough, sometimes will blow fire out of the muffler and then dies.  When trying to start it after it dies, it blows smoke and is very hard to start and runs very rough if it restarts. 

 

But, after cooling off completely and when first started for the day, it runs great. 

 

When I bought it, thee muffler was all rusted through and we repaired it by welding the rusted through sections, and I could hear the baffles in the muffler loose inside it.  Could this be a reason for this?  If not, what else?

 

I just put a brand new fuel pump on but it was doing this before I did that and still does. 


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#2 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 08:53 PM

Put a spark plug on each plug wire when cranking cold & see what your spark looks like.  Then when hot & it starts this problem, do the same again.  Could be the coil breaking down when hot.  If the spark looks erratic &/or weaker when hot, then it's the coil.


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#3 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 08:58 PM

I had a work van once that you would be going along great then suddenly it would start running rough and eventually die.  I messed with that van for a long time and one day someone mentioned about the exhaust.  The mufflers looked fine but once I got them off they were completely gone inside.  Put a couple of new ones on and never had a problem again.

 

Follow Olcowhand's advice, but I would also make sure your muffler isn't contributing to the problem.


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#4 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 09:05 PM

Yes, it could be the baffles, and I should have said that, but if not, check the spark.  I lean to the spark because it does fine when it cools.  



#5 Rock farmer ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 09:36 PM

That engine is a Kohler K532 right? I have the same engine in a Jacobsen, doing the same thing. It's new to me so I have no history with it. I am leaning towards a bad coil too. Although I saw somewhere that bad oil rings could cause this. My compression is good, I don't know about the muffler. My carb and wiring are a mess. So, I'm working thru that.

By the way I understand that Harley Davidsons from the sixties, with point ignition use the same coil. Much less pricey than kohler!

Joe

Edited by Rock farmer, June 05, 2013 - 06:43 AM.


#6 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 09:46 PM

 

By the way I understand that harly davidson coils from the sixties with point ignition use the same coil. Much less pricey than kohler!

Joe

 

Yes, those coils will work just fine.



#7 nathanatfork OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 10:01 PM

Yes it is the kohler 532. 

 

I will check the spark tomorrow like you laid out.  Hoping its the muffler instead of the coil. 



#8 nathanatfork OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 10:04 PM



By the way I understand that harly davidson coils from the sixties with point ignition use the same coil. Much less pricey than kohler!

Joe

 

 

Yes, those coils will work just fine.

 

 

Have a link so I know what to look for if it turns out I need a coil?  Im all about saving some $$



#9 ol' stonebreaker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 10:08 PM

  Migft be good to check valve lash too.

                                                Mike



#10 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 10:22 PM

Harley Davidson Points ignition coils work beautifully on Twin Cylinder Kohler engines.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...1a4062a&vxp=mtr



#11 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2013 - 05:13 AM

It could be you are loosing spark on 1 cylinder when hot. The gas is being pulled into the dead cylinder anyway and then dumped unburnt into the exhaust system. That could result in flames when it ignites. Checking the spark when hot should reveal this problem. You may be able to pull the plugs and find one wet as well.



#12 Rock farmer ONLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2013 - 06:41 AM

Yes it is the kohler 532.

I will check the spark tomorrow like you laid out. Hoping its the muffler instead of the coil.

I'd rather replace a $30 coil than a $120 muffler any day! Not only is it cheaper, it's a lot less work. I'll probably replace both on mine.

There are two different coils used on Harley's. one 5 ohm resistance for points ignition and one 3 ohm resistance for electronic ignition. Is one better than the other for these engines?

Thanks,

Joe

Edit to correct 3 ohm - 5 ohm

Edited by Rock farmer, June 05, 2013 - 02:05 PM.


#13 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2013 - 08:46 AM

I'd rather replace a $30 coil than a $120 muffler any day! Not only is it cheaper, it's a lot less work. I'll probably replace both on mine.

There are two different coils used on Harley's. one 3 ohm resistance for points ignition and one 5 ohm resistance for electronic ignition. Is one better than the other for these engines?

Thanks,

Joe

You MUST use the 5 ohm type if your engine has points.

 

(Edited to correct to 5 ohm)


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#14 Rock farmer ONLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2013 - 09:14 AM

Harley Davidson Points ignition coils work beautifully on Twin Cylinder Kohler engines.

http://www.ebay.com/...1a4062a&vxp=mtr

That link is to a five ohm coil. The seller says it works with points. I just bought one out of Massachusetts that is listed as being for 1965 and up Harleys with points ignition. And it costs a little less. The Harley part number is 31609-65A.

The important thing to know is that these coils come in different ohm values. And if the seller does not know that, you should! This info is not in the manuals or wiring diagrams! And, often times not on the coil itself.


BLACK 12V IGNITION COIL FOR HARLEY SHOVELHEAD SPORTSTER 65-79 POINTS IGNITION

I can't seem to post a link to Ebay.

Joe

(Edited to revise and extend my remarks)

Edited by Rock farmer, June 05, 2013 - 02:16 PM.


#15 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 05, 2013 - 10:31 AM

I edited my post above as it seems we've brain farted.  The 5 ohm IS the type you need for the points systems, so the link Eric provided is correct.  The 3 ohm fits 83 through 1999 models which were NOT points style.






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