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448 Can't Get Gas


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#1 machinist OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 03:39 PM

It still won't run. I have done everything I know to this tractor and it will run a few minutes and then it gets no gas to the carburetor. I thought Gator nailed it, when he said the gas cap vent was plugged up. It was. I drilled out the vent holes and had no problem with it on a SHORT test run.

Today, I started it in the shop and it took forever for the gas to get up to the carb, like the fuel pump isn't working so good. But, it did start, so I took it out to do some rototilling, tilled one pass at full throttle the length of the 90 foot garden and it crapped out AGAIN. Died as far as possible from the house, of course. I let it sit for a short time, removed entirely the plastic anti-splash part under the gas cap, and it started. I made it back to the other end of the garden and it died again. No fuel in the transparent fuel line, just a bubble near the gas filter. I let it sit and fetched a new-in-the-bag fuel filter, installed it, and it took forever for the fuel to pump up and fill the filter.

I limped it back to the shop with the choke full-on, and throttle just above idle. The engine "hunted", like when the governor is mal-adjusted, but it was a lack of fuel causing it. I had the hood up and was watching the fuel bubble along just a drop at a time.

When the thing first starts, it runs very well from idle to full throttle, pulled the tiller with no problem, etc. Then, it dies for lack of fuel. I think I have, A) a bad fuel pump, although it is brand new, or, B) a vacuum leak somewhere in that fuel circuit.

I DESPISE THIS TRACTOR! I have owned it for going on 6 years and NEVER had it do a lick of work yet, despite a host of TLC and hundreds of $$$ in new parts.

Work done to it so far:
Rebuilt carburetor-all jets and gaskets/cleaned and passages blown out (and no, this ain't my first rodeo on carburetors), new fuel pump (integral to the Marvel Schebler carb), new fuel filter and yellow Tygon fuel line, washed out fuel tank.

New points, plugs, starter cable, starter solenoid, much new wiring, new ignition switch, new battery (much abused by this fuel problem).

New tires (Tri ribs and rear Ags) all around, sandblast and new paint/decals, rebuilt steering/wheel bearings/PMPS/Heim joints/steering bushings/bored and bushed sector gear, new muffler, new heat shields on engine.

New hydraulic hoses on 3 point and new hydraulic quick disconnects and hoses to tiller. Oil cooler cleaned and mount repaired. All fluids changed and topped off.

Added front weights, rear wheel weights, tool box, grease gun/mount, new seat, etc.

Most of the above does not apply to the fuel problem, but it gives an idea how much work has been done and what I have spent on the infernal thing. All to have a very nice looking tractor THAT WON'T RUN! :deadhorse:

So. I hit the key on the old 446 with rusty fenders, scorched hood, and 30 year old tires. It starts, every time. It runs until either it is out of gas or I shut it off. RELIABLY! This is disgusting. Pretty tractor won't go. Ugly tractor goes and works like a slave.

Edited by machinist, May 28, 2013 - 03:40 PM.


#2 Guest_gravely-power_*

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 03:42 PM

Did you remove the petcock from the tank and clean the fine mesh filter.


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#3 machinist OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 03:45 PM

I learned on another forum that these tractors may have a screen in the fuel tank that could be plugged up, so I disconnected the line from the fuel filter and lowered it close to the floor. Gas ran freely into a can by gravity alone, so there is no obstruction in the tank/fuel filter/gas line to that point. No petcock on this tractor.

I think the fuel pump is bad, despite being new. I had replaced the vacuum hose from the fuel pump to the crankcase back when I rebuilt the carb. I think I need to check out if that produces vacuum when I crank the tractor, too. Might have a vacuum leak in the fuel pump?


I dunno. This has me stumped.

Edited by machinist, May 28, 2013 - 04:50 PM.


#4 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 04:28 PM

Just shooting in the dark here....Is your gasoline fresh? You know this blasted ethanol laced gasoline is bad stuff if it sets too long.

 

On an up side, Glad to see another Hoosier.


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#5 machinist OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 04:53 PM

Yep, just filled the tank with fresh stuff today. I've been using an ounce of Seafoam in the 3 gallon tank, too.

I talked to Gary that supplied my carburetor parts and fuel pump. http://www.gphope.com/

He suggested I might have a vacuum leak at one of the fuel line connections. He has fixed several with this problem by adding hose clamps on the line. I'll try that, since I only had friction fit connections. The one at the carburetor wasn't all that tight.

KC9KAS,

Hi Hoosier! Ever go to the antique tractor show at Elnora, IN? Not all that far from you. We try to get to that one each year, and prowl the flea market. Got decals for my Case there from Maple Hunter who had a booth.

Edited by machinist, May 28, 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 04:54 PM

That must be frustrating. What about putting a low pressure electric fuel pump in line. I know it's more $ but would guarantee fuel was getting as far as the existing pump. 



#7 KC9KAS OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 05:49 PM

Yep, just filled the tank with fresh stuff today. I've been using an ounce of Seafoam in the 3 gallon tank, too.


Hi Hoosier! Ever go to the antique tractor show at Elnora, IN? Not all that far from you. We try to get to that one each year, and prowl the flea market. Got decals for my Case there from Maple Hunter who had a booth.

I too am a SEAFOAM believer!

Oh yeah...Elnora....we went to the Spring swap meet this year, and try to go to the later show every year...

Did you ever see the "Tractor Square Dancing?"

 

Are you planning on the SIAM show at the Vanderburgh (Evansville) Co Fair Grounds in June?


Edited by KC9KAS, May 28, 2013 - 05:52 PM.


#8 Rock farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 07:02 PM

I'd like to suggest bypassing the fuel system entirely. Run a line from a small tank and just gravity feed it directly to the carb.

Joe

#9 machinist OFFLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2013 - 08:41 PM

Rock farmer,

If I can't get it to work with what I know now, I'll try an extra tank like that, just to prove what is going on.

JDBrian,

An electric pump is my last resort. I have had dismal experiences with those, too, on my trucks, mostly being high $$.

KC9KAS,

Yeah! We saw the Tractor Square Dance, and another time saw a stagecoach robbery and shootout with a dozen cowpokes. I get into the antiques there, too. No on the Evansville show. It would make a VERY long day to get to that one and we have animals to tend. But daughter and I have been to Frog Follies, though, when we did some sheet metal work for hot rods and such. Daughter was the metal former, member of Metalmeet.com, and airframe repair person in USAF. But, I retired and she works in her own shop now with her husband.

I'd like to find some things at Elnora, or otherwise, in particular another Brinly sleeve hitch style cultivator, and maybe a Case chipper/shredder. But I have to get the 448 going reliably before I spend anything on attachments for it. (The old 446 does not have rear PTO.)

Edited by machinist, May 28, 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#10 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted May 29, 2013 - 10:42 PM

You can take a baggy and rubber  band . Put it over the dip stick and rap rubber band tight .     That is another place you could be losing crankcase vacuum.  


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#11 machinist OFFLINE  

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Posted May 31, 2013 - 08:49 PM

That is one I had not thought about! I think the dipstick has a rubber cork on it, but I' be sure to check it out. No time to work on this lately, with garden planting and picking strawberries. Life is interfering with my mechanical hobbies!

#12 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2013 - 04:40 PM

I learned on another forum that these tractors may have a screen in the fuel tank that could be plugged up, so I disconnected the line from the fuel filter and lowered it close to the floor. Gas ran freely into a can by gravity alone, so there is no obstruction in the tank/fuel filter/gas line to that point. No petcock on this tractor.

I think the fuel pump is bad, despite being new. I had replaced the vacuum hose from the fuel pump to the crankcase back when I rebuilt the carb. I think I need to check out if that produces vacuum when I crank the tractor, too. Might have a vacuum leak in the fuel pump?


I dunno. This has me stumped.


I had my case 222 apart to replace the fuel line because every time i wanted to start it it acted like it was out of gas or ran out. I pulled the fuel line a gas flowed freely and i pulled the tank off next. I took the barb fitting out of the gas tank and the plastic screen was smashed up so much i decided it was probably causing fuel delivery problems. So take yourself a better look at that.
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#13 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2013 - 04:40 PM

By the way, i replaced that barb fitting completely.
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#14 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 01, 2013 - 08:43 PM

Low pressure electric fuel pump.... just $23.50  to your door!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=380644376327


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#15 machinist ONLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2013 - 07:58 AM

I don't remember seeing a screen in the tank when I had it off and washed it out, but I'll drain it and check again.




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