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Briggs Starting Problem?


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#1 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 06:18 PM

My son and I are working on a Toro HXL LT with a B & S , Model - 28N707, Type - 013-01, Code - 970314ZE. I twill run but it is hard to start and the most perplexing thing is that when you try to start it by cranking it over it doesn't fire until you let off the key and it then will fire and sometimes start. It has an electronic carb on it, which I am not familiar with. It sat over the winter and I have put Seafoam in it trying to get it to start easier. I don't want to tear into the carb because I have no knowledge of one like it and we are doing this for free because he has no money . Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I had it running earlier today in the garage but I was just out there and it would crank but not start again. Thanks for any help. Roger. 


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#2 IlovemyCub OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 06:25 PM

I would think its the starter because my grandpa had a John Deere 180 that started very hard, similar to your problem. So what me and my dad did was take the starter apart and oiled the shoot out gear, and it worked fine after that. Just a thought. Ian. 


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#3 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 06:53 PM

I thought it might be the starter but the bendix work great and it spins free also. I put my spark tester on it and it doesn't light until you let off the switch and the motor spins free. It is a new switch he put in last year and from the wiring diagram I have it appears to be wired correctly. Roger.



#4 superaben OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 07:35 PM

Are you 100% sure that ignition switch is right?  It sure sounds like it is wrong or that it is toasted again.  The wiring should be the same for the ignition on and start positions, so that's either all the way wrong or all the way right.  It sure sounds like a switch issue.

 

Ben W.


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#5 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 08:19 PM

... from the wiring diagram I have...

 

Can you post the wiring diagram?  That might help us find the problem.


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#6 Guest_gravely-power_*

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 08:33 PM

Wrong switch.


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#7 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 08:46 PM

Hope this works.torohdxlwiring.PNG



#8 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 09:22 PM

I would check the yellow wire between I & Y on the ignition switch or the internal link from B to I in START.  Here is why:

 

When you are in START, terminals B, I & S are all connected and getting power from the battery.  We know they are getting power because your starter rotates.  We also know your PTO & neutral switches are good for the same reason.  Power should flow from terminal I to Y via the yellow wire and then to the safety relay, which removes the ground from your magneto.  We know the relay is working because the engine wants to run when you go to the RUN position.  

 

In RUN, the safety relay gets power from terminal X via Y and the seat switch.

 

The only relevant difference between START & RUN is the source of the power on terminal Y.

 

Toro HXL Start.jpg Toro HXL Run.jpg


Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, May 12, 2013 - 09:25 PM.

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#9 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 09:57 PM

I will check this out in the morning. I did check to see if the Craftsman switch he bought was the same as the original and it " appeared" to be the same.(also from the wiring ladder)  He had made a drawing of the rear of the original switch and then trhew the old one away. Getting a little late tonight to do so. Thanks for the help. Roger.



#10 ol' stonebreaker OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2013 - 10:07 PM

  Disconnect the ignition grounding wire and see what happens. If it starts fine then you'll have to trace back to where the problem is.

                                                            Mike


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#11 TAHOE ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2013 - 09:33 AM

When you say electronic carb, are you talking about the 1 wire solenoid on bottom of the bowl? My neighbors was doing a similar act, would run, then wouldn't run. Fired fine on starter fluid, but maybe start, maybe not. I found that that solenoid on the bottom of the carb is a fuel shutoff switch, they ground wire mounted to the block was lose. Sometimes it would make contact, let fuel in and start, other times not. Tightened bolt, started ever since.

Does sound like the switch though as it will start when you let off of it.


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#12 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2013 - 09:33 AM

Been working on this all morning. The wiring diagram shows one (1) fuse a 7.5a. There are three (3) fuses. There is also a light blue wire that is supposed to go to the magneto. It is a wire that appears to have connector on it but I can't find where it goes to. I reattached the black wire from the solenoid to the safety switch and tried it again. I can get it to run but again it runs after the switch is let go back to run from start. It will not start while cranking. Once while it was running it would not shut off. The starter continued to run as well as the engine. It will start and then run with the choke on for a bit then you can move the throttle to run position and it will run. The diagram doesn't show all the wires that are on the tractor. I have been trying to run these down but it is hard to sort them out. I am usually good at reading wiring ladders and figuring out where wires go. Maybe if there hadn't been so much creative wiring on this it wouldn't be so hard. Have to recharge the battery as it runs low quickly. More later as it progresses. Removing the ground wire did nothing for it. Just need it gone from the garage so we can fix out other mower deck to mow with. thanks. Roger. 



#13 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2013 - 10:16 AM

Just went back out and disconnected the ground wire to the engine from the switch again and this is what happened. After turning the switch on the safety relay makes a high pitched squeel, the engine starts as it should, when shutting it off the engine continues to run for a short time (aprox. 3-4 seconds). Reattaching reverses the process. NOW, the switch has no markings on it whatsover, no letters no numbers only the word INDAK. I am begining to wonder if this switch is the wrong one. It now has me stumped. Thanks. Roger.



#14 hamman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2013 - 11:39 AM

I'm back.........Just went out and tried to start it and it started and run, not the right way, when I shut it off the starter moror continued to run, disengaged from fly wheel. Had to remove the ground cable to make it stop. Now it appears that maybe the selonoid or relay is stuck to open keeping power to the starter. Ground cable end broke off now I have to repair that before I can go further. More thinking to do..... Roger.



#15 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2013 - 11:49 AM

A lesson I learned not to long ago.  I got a zero turn after another shop had worked on it.  Go to start it and it would blow the fuse.  It had a brand new ignition switch in it and it really looked almost like the original switch except for one difference when you read it out it read all wrong and there was one terminal not set exactly like the original one.  I got a new correct one and problem solved.  I think GP is correct and you have the wrong switch installed.  Have your local supply get you the correct switch and do not cut corners.


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