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Welding 101 Help!

welding arc stick

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#16 michael.kitko OFFLINE  

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Posted May 03, 2013 - 08:28 AM

Like everyone is saying, it is pretty hard to weld on rusty pipe. Like others are saying, I agree that you can fill it, it will take time though. You have to weld it a little at a time. My last certification weld was a hole fill with stick welding, so filling a hole with just welding is possible, but it does take time. I have personally never had a good time with MIG, but I am sure it can be done with that too.

#17 JRJ OFFLINE  

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Posted May 03, 2013 - 08:38 AM

MailmAn in the 12th post you are correct in the Oxy-Act. brazing up the hole, it can be done by someone with the skill. I don't think it would have to be a muffler shop, just anyone that has the torches.  

Like just about everyone has said and I will say as a past certified welder, practice and more practice until you can look at it and feel good about it, you can do it, sounds like you have the proper tools just not for this job.

 

Good Luck and don't give up and keep at it.

 

 

Dick


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#18 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted May 03, 2013 - 08:39 AM

I will add....don't lose hope. I am self taught back yard welding myself using a Harbor Freight 220V mig, but using flux core until I can afford gas setup. I started out just as you did, little boogers, blowing through the metal, etc, very very frustrating. :wallbanging:

I will agree with others though, I would grind that out and try to find some patch metal to go over that. I see it's on both sides of the hanger, make two patches for both sides.

Also, that metal is thin so it will blow through easily, needs to be spot welded and built up as you go. I just did this on a lawn tractor exhaust, had my settings as low as they would go, slow wire speed and just had to glob it on there and keep building it up, spot weld, cool, spot weld, cool,  then grind it smooth. Exhaust is not a fun weld anyway, at least for me. Rust spots from both inside and out make metal thin, hard to get decent weld.

I would disagree with above statement as it doesn't need to be clean cause it's flux. My flux core does not like to weld over dirty metal or previous welds with splatter, I constantly use wire brush/wire wheel to keep area clean.

 

I would suggest to  see if local shop will fix it for you if you are too frustrated and from there......practice, practice, practice! Takes time to learn metals, wire speed and heat settings.


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#19 HowardsMF155 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 03, 2013 - 10:10 AM

I have a suggestion, feel free to take it or not.  To me, the way things are, I'd take some steel wire of some sort, wrap it around the pipe the help bridge the holes, plus it will be flexible and easy to work with, then I would use an Oxy-Acetylene torch to melt brazing rod into it.  The pipe would need to be cleaned up shiny, but that could be done with emery cloth or similar.  Just my two cents.  I've never welded thin metal before, and since I have an oxy rig, I probably never will try.



#20 coldone OFFLINE  

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Posted May 03, 2013 - 05:26 PM

I am new to welding too so it might be my ignorance that allowed me to do something similar. My deck had holes in, I set my 220 HF welder to the lowest settings. Lowest voltage tap and wire speed (wire speed equals current, lower speed less current). I was blowing through when I was trying to weld it all at once. I switched to just putting a small amount of weld, basically a spot weld, on the edge. Just enough to form a puddle. Then I stopped and went to the other side of the hole and did the same thing. Then to the top, then to the bottom. Then started back at the original spot. Eventually I could fill in the hole. The key for me was to watch the puddle and figuring out when I was about to blow through. 

 

If I were in your shoes, I would find some thin sheet metal and drill a few holes in it. Try welding those up by using different techniques.

 

Also with my rusty deck, sometimes the metal was just too far gone and too thin to try the build up method. The spot welding would eat it up and make the hole bigger. Once the edges got back to thicker metal, I was able to build it up again.

 

 

Oh and Doctors get their hands held a lot before they are turn loose on live patients. And I dont think they ever get it right. Every one I have ever met is still 'Practising" medicine.


Edited by coldone, May 03, 2013 - 05:27 PM.

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#21 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2013 - 12:00 PM

.

Second Welding Attempt:

 

Okay, so I wanted to get a little practice in at least before I start trying to weld up anything I care about, lol...  I actually want to attempt today to weld the broken clutch idler arm on the latest EK-10 that I bought since it broke off when I was messing around with switching belts on it.  (For more on that story:  http://gardentractor...today/?p=319875)

 

So, this morning I attempted to weld together the broken transaxle shift fork from my Bolens 850 that I replaced last year.  (Yes, I kept the broken part all this time and didn't throw it out.  Does that mean I'm sick and need to be on the TV show "Hoarders"?  Little did I know then that it would turn into welding practice for me now!)  So, I sanded off all the rust that accumulated on it to try and get to some shiny metal.  Then, since it seems to be a lot thicker metal than a rusted out exhaust pipe, I cranked the Lincoln welder up to HI and set the wire feed to around 3.5-4.  Here were the results:

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_01.jpg

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_02.jpg

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_03.jpg

 

 

Here were the settings I used on the welder.  Can anyone help explain to me what the different switches actually do?

(I'm assuming it just increases the voltage output of the welder to weld thicker gauge metal with?)

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_04.jpg


PracticeWelding-06022013_05.jpg

 

 

So, here are the results after welding it back together:

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_06.jpg

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_07.jpg

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_08.jpg

 

PracticeWelding-06022013_09.jpg

 

 

So, what do you think?  Be honest here, even if it hurts my feelings!  lol...  I mean, from what I can tell, it isn't too bad actually for only my second attempt at welding anything ever.  Yeah, there is some splatter here and there and a few boogers on it, but IDK if that is just from some rust contamination and not having a fully cleaned surface?  There is that white flux residue all over as well, but unless I get a gas shielding MIG setup I won't be able to avoid that, right?  I could wire brush that off if I really cared.  I was just more worried to be sure it welded together properly.  I'm not sure how to tell if I got good penetration on the welds, but I tried beating on it with a hammer to see if the two parts would break apart or not and it seems pretty sturdy, so I think I did on okay job on this.  I don't think they are going to come apart any time soon!

 

Now, to tackle fixing my EK-10 so I can harvest the field of hay...  er, I mean...  mow the lawn!

 

 

 



#22 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2013 - 01:19 PM

That looks pretty good to me. I have a very similar Century welder and with a little practice I was able to do several repairs with it last year. I'm getting set to weld up a new battery tray for my JD317.  There is a copy of Welding for Dummies in the manuals section here - http://gardentractor...-complete-book/ I have a copy but haven't read it yet. It may help to read it but actually getting some practice seems to be the best way to learn. 


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#23 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2013 - 01:36 PM

That isn't bad for your 2nd weld!  If there was some contamination, you can grind to smooth that weld up, then go over a 2nd time & it'll do better  Also, get some of that spray "nozzle shield" that you spray on your MIG gun nozzle and spray around your weld area.  It'll help prevent splatter from fusing to your work piece.  Most of the splatter will wipe right off.


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#24 CADplans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 02, 2013 - 01:42 PM

You can not evaluate a weld with slag and boogers on it. :hitting_self_roller:

 

 Clean it up, grind as necessary, then retake the pics.   :dancingbanana:

 

This was stick welded, but, the coating was removed, you can see the weld.

 

D7K_0760640x589.jpg

 

If you think of the filler metal as a triangle, one of the short legs length should equal the thickness of the  thinner metal being welded,  :tapping_fingers: to obtain the full strength of the base metal.


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#25 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted June 03, 2013 - 09:53 AM

yea, with flux, you pretty much with get all the white residue all over, like it's been said, grab a wire brush or wire wheel and clean it all up. If you need to hit it with another weld, make sure you clean it up, my flux does not like welding over all that junk and really makes for a poor weld.

My welder has similar settings as yours, basically 4 heat settings then a dial for wire feed. All I can pretty much say is it's a weld  and learn process to see what settings you need for what thickenss of material. Mmine has a simpler scale on the front that tells me what amps I'm wleding at per the settings. Bascially..... Low 1 is lowest heat, then low 2, then you jump up to high 1 then high 2. Welding 1/8-3/16 material, mine is usually set on low 2 or high 1 at about a 5 on wire speed using .030 flux core. You welder maybe different, but it's a learned thing. I try to hit a piece of scrap beforehand to make sure it's laying a decent weld or not burning through with too high of heat. It shoudl sound like a nice piece of bacon frying.

I did this when i first got my welder, get you a piece of scrap you don't plan to use. Clean it up and just start welding lines on it. You can try the circular motion or the push pull method. I really can't explain it in words, something I had to practice to learn the techniques.



#26 ol' stonebreaker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 03, 2013 - 11:10 PM

 

You can not evaluate a weld with slag and boogers on it. :hitting_self_roller:
 
 Clean it up, grind as necessary, then retake the pics.   :dancingbanana:
 
This was stick welded, but, the coating was removed, you can see the weld.
 
D7K_0760640x589.jpg
 
If you think of the filler metal as a triangle, one of the short legs length should equal the thickness of the  thinner metal being welded,  :tapping_fingers: to obtain the full strength of the base metal.


Come on, Cad. Most of us weren't born w/ a stinger in hand.
Mike
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#27 CADplans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 03:07 AM

 

Come on, Cad. Most of us weren't born w/ a stinger in hand.
Mike

Yea, I guess that nuclear certification the Navy gave me back in the 1970's helps a little!!   :D  



#28 CADplans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 03:15 AM

For practice, I always recommend starting off with an easy project!!

 

D7K_0804.jpg

 

D7K_0796.jpg

 

3waycrop.jpg

 

THEN, work your way UP!!   :dancingbanana:



#29 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 05:50 AM

I think you in the same boat as many of us , you just don't weld enough to get good results right away .You might want to  keep different thickness of scraps around so when you do have a " really " project you can find some metal the same size will help ( still might not be the same metalurgy ) getting the correct heat and wire speed  , you should try getting your joints shinny steel clean , I'll wipe down the area with brakeclean so the oils don't start  fumming when the metal gets hot too .  practice and keep having fun .


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#30 marlboro180 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 04, 2013 - 06:02 AM

Just a side note on wiping the bits to be welded with Brake Cleaner- This can be a potentially hazardous practice, as a gas called phosgene can be generated from any wet residue that is burned off from welding.  Be careful, as the gas can kill you.

 

Link here, please read it.   http://www.brewracin...es.com/id75.htm

 

and another :   http://weldingweb.co...ead.php?t=32501

 

 


Edited by marlboro180, June 04, 2013 - 06:03 AM.

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