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Lets Talk Regulators- Tecumseh Oh160/sears 16/6


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#1 TAHOE ONLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 08:19 PM

Ok, so the regulator on my Sears 16/6 with the OH160 was shot I believe when I got the tractor. Never was a problem as with the SSI system, I only used it for starting tractor then throw on charger at end of the day.

Fast forward to last summer when I went through 2 SSI modules in 1 month, then converted over to a battery/coil auto style ignition. My buddy who designed the ignition determined the regulator was bad, let me borrow a 15 amp from Kohler Command 22 hp, my original was 20 amp. So I found another replacement Kohler one so he could get his back, worked fine until recently. I was using tractor with the winch bucket and I ended up shutting down motor as winch wore out battery,no charging,  Amp meter showed a big fat goose egg for charging duties, I determined regulator is fried. I think winch and motor were pulling the max 15 amps or maybe more and fried it. I do have an GM alternator on it, but just found out it the last couple days it was wired wrong and not charging, that is now fixed.

So I say all that to ge to this point. I have a later model regulator that bolts into flywheel cover, I installed it tonight and it appears to be charging or at least doing something,

Here's my breakdown

* at roughly 1000-1500 rpms it shows on amp gauge about 12-14 amps of charge, approx 13.8-13.9 volts at battery with meter. rpm increase doesn't move a whole lot. 

* Turn lights on, amp meter drops to about 3-4 amps, volts drop very little.

* check AC current coming from stator, shows 49.8 volts which is good per manual.

Here's where it get exciting,... I flip switch to turn on alternator, BAM, instant 14.5-14.8 volts at battery,

but amp meter from regulator drops to 0 like it shuts off. If I turn on lights or use winch with alternator on, amp meter drops to negative/dsicharge 10 amps

 

Ok so now I'm a little baffled and worried also.

*Is the alternator over coming the tractor's regulator and causing it to stop charging or even sending juice to stator? 

*When amp meter drops to negative or discharge, am I send juice back through regulator?

*I'm also curious as to why it charges at 12-14 amps no load, then drops to 2-4 with load, I thought it would be the other way around.

 

I can leave alternator turned off for now, but thinking a long day of moving mulch or dirt and I will need the extra charging/voltage to keep it all running.

 

Thanks for any replies, just trying to wrap my brain arouind this before I burn up any more expensive NLA parts.

 

 

 



#2 New.Canadian.DB.Owner ONLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 09:11 PM

Everything you say makes perfect sense, if you have a Delco Remy style regulator.  They have a current regulator relay that inserts a resistance into the circuit if the current draw exceeds the preset maximum (15 amps on most GTs).  12 amps no load + lights likely exceeds the preset & your current drops to 3-4 amps.  They also have a cutout relay that prevents the battery from feeding back into the generator.  If your battery voltage jumps to 14.5 VDC and the regulator is preset to 13.9 VDC, the cutout relay will open to protect the generator, leaving your GM alternator to carry the load.  Hope that helps.  If not, here are some additional materials.

 

If one of the mods wants to toss the PDF into the manuals section & insert a link, feel free.

 

Attached File  1R-116.pdf   1.76MB   126 downloads



#3 Moosetales OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 11:40 PM

Everything you say makes perfect sense, if you have a Delco Remy style regulator.  They have a current regulator relay that inserts a resistance into the circuit if the current draw exceeds the preset maximum (15 amps on most GTs).  12 amps no load + lights likely exceeds the preset & your current drops to 3-4 amps.  They also have a cutout relay that prevents the battery from feeding back into the generator.  If your battery voltage jumps to 14.5 VDC and the regulator is preset to 13.9 VDC, the cutout relay will open to protect the generator, leaving your GM alternator to carry the load.  Hope that helps.  If not, here are some additional materials.

 

If one of the mods wants to toss the PDF into the manuals section & insert a link, feel free.

 

attachicon.gif1R-116.pdf

 

I could read this over and over and probably never quite grasp everything you just said.....BUT it sure is cool reading it, especially since it's clear you know exactly what you are talking about. I now know where to come for my electrical questions. :thumbs:


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#4 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 03:05 AM

This PDF file is about generators, he has an alternator. They work differently, the regulator is builtin. I'm thinking the GM alt is probably overpowering the tractor charging system, it may be necessary to disconnect the tractor charging system before engaging the GM unit. The GM unit should put out 60 amps.
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#5 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 05:07 AM

I'm not 100% sure how you have this all connected but a 15 amp regulator will over heat and fail if it's asked to put out 20 amps or more. This is more likely to happen if it is not mounted to a good heatsink. Excessive heat will kill any electronic component.



#6 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 06:06 AM

Depending on the regulator in the GM unit, it's really easy to hook it up. If using a standard unit, the post on the back goes to the battery, and the 2 posts of top, one of those goes the battery and the other goes to the switch to turn it on. The post on top that needs to go to the battery, I always hooked it to the post on back. I can't remember which post on top goes where now.

There is also a self energizing regulator for a GM alt that doesn't need to switched on. It only needs one wire hooked to a battery to work.

I did this to several cars back in the day. Also remember that an alt will not energize without battery voltage being applied. Whereas a generator does need a battery to work.
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#7 TAHOE ONLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 09:03 AM

Thanks for all the comments. After going back and ready my initial post and replies, maybe I should add couple things for clarification.

 

Here are the two style regulators that the ST16's used I think. The large one is similar to the burnt up one that come with the tractor, the one pictured is from my 74 ST that under going restore, trying  not to use that one.

The other one is newer design mounted directly into the flywheel tin for max cooling I guess. The original one and the compact one I am currently using were mounted up by battery on firewall.

here are  both those. The are AC-B-AC

photobucket-31287-1348143971399_zps48995

 

and a pic I found of the original regulator

photobucket-3805-1334853819668.jpg

 

The Alternator is a GM 3 wire, the large post on back is wired directly to battery with a 6 gauge wire. One of the two spade terminals off back feed directly to battery hot, the other goes back to a 12+ volt switch. I was told it didn't matter position but I do know now, it does matter which one is switched hot as alternator did not work until I switched the two wires. Now I can turn Alternator off/on by flipping switch. I have read the other wire going tothe hot should be wired into a "dummy light" so if it comes on  I know it's not charging. I may run that through a volt meter so I can know exactly what's going on.

Here is a couple pics of it, not the best, but all I have.

 

photobucket-15173-1335487040940.jpg

photobucket-6898-1343696601987.jpg

 

Here's the diagram I was sent to wire it, I guess it's pretty close, at least I know alternator is working now.

 

delco_wiring_botheditted-1.jpg

 

 

I may just unplug the factory regulator if I decide to use alternator. I am just really worried I'm going to back feed and burn up stator or something.

If New Canadian is correct, it should not be a worry as regualtor should shut off to prevent back feed.

I am currently looking at using an Onan 20 amp regulator, a member on MTF is going to give it a shot on his ST16 so I may wait for his results. I may be buying Dale Covert's Overnight Solutions ignition to get rid the battery /coil system since I use the winch so much, that would eliminate the need to worry about battery to keep tractor running.

 

Oh, explain to me the materials or how to make a heat sink please. I kind of know what it is, it pulls heat away from the electronics, but the factory reg was mounted to the firewall, this compact one was cooled by flywheel.



#8 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 04:23 PM

FWIW: On GM cars both the battery wire and the other red wire on the alt are hooked to the battery at the starter. There will be a couple of fusible links on the starter, these will have 2 wires coming out of these, 2 of these are for the alt, and the other 2 provide power to the car. IIRC there should be a 10 ohm resister soldered across the amp light so the light will go out. I seem to remember that if the light goes dim but doesn't go out, but it still charges, this was the fix for it.

It's been a few years since I worked on these. Years ago I convert a few older generator systems to alt. I had a '64 El Camino I converted from ext reg to an int unit, but I had SS gauges in it, so it had a amp meter instead of a light.

Edited by Amigatec, April 23, 2013 - 04:26 PM.


#9 New.Canadian.DB.Owner ONLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 09:06 PM

 

 

Here's the diagram I was sent to wire it, I guess it's pretty close, at least I know alternator is working now.

 

delco_wiring_botheditted-1.jpg

 

 

...

If New Canadian is correct, it should not be a worry as regualtor should shut off to prevent back feed.

 

My comments relate strictly to the old mechanical Delco Remy regulators.  I cannot say whether the new solid state regulators will act the same way.  



#10 TAHOE ONLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2013 - 09:13 AM

Thanks.

Amigatec, I don't have any extra red wires....all custom colors from my wire supply  HAHA.

I do have the main one and one of the other small ones going to battery, the other one I put on a switch so I can turn on/off the charging.

I may just unplug the factory reg for right now if I need the alternator. I have 8 yards of mulch to scoop/move at churfch saturday, will have to see what happens with either or a combo.






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