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Electric Pto Problem


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#1 lyall OFFLINE  

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Posted April 21, 2013 - 09:48 PM

I am having problems with my JD 212 electric pto

I got 3 garden tractors from Craigslist and all 3 have the electic pto - 112, 210 and 212

 

I checked the ohms on it and it checked good ( I think) on the 212

I been working on getting it cleaned up and checking it all over

got the 212 started today and it sound and runs great

the motor was rebuilt by the PO years ago, but just sat 

he said he had problems with the drive

I replaced the varitor - the old one was bad

 

while I was running the motor, I tried turning on the pto and the motor started dying 

tried it several times and it wants to die when I try turning on the pto

 

I noticed that the pto was turning

the pto switch was off

 

got a long stick to see if I could stop the pto - it did

 

what is going on?

 

what do think I should do?

 

I can bench test it - it make sure it is good.

 

man I like like the old manual ptos - easy to work on

 

thenks

 

 


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#2 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 07:29 AM

If the engine dies when you engage the electric PTO, I'd be looking at the safety switches & associated wiring.


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#3 bh115577 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 07:40 AM

This might help with diagnosing your clutch.

 

http://www.messicks....tricClutch.aspx

 


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#4 Lmiller3358 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 07:57 AM

Is there any way to test an electric pto that is out the machine, I have one I got from my Dad who claims it was good, I want to sell it cause I have no use for it but I'd like to know if it is good, I believe it's out of a Bolens?



#5 bh115577 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 08:03 AM

Follow the instructions in the link I posted. The ohms test is done with the clutch unplugged from the machine so, even testing on the bench, if the ohms are within range the electrical part of the clutch is good.


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#6 lyall OFFLINE  

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Posted April 22, 2013 - 11:10 PM

I tried again tonight - so same problem with the pto - the motor starts to die

so I turned it off and turn the key to run and tried the pto and I hear the pto click

so the pto is getting power

 

read the post that bh115577 make for the link and saved it

 

so tested the ohms and it looks bad - ohms 0.1

going to test it again soon and try the chisel test it see it that work and check the wiring 

going to get the 212 to my nephew - so I did not want to put a lot of money into

 

I might try putting on a on -off switch on it to see how that works

 

if I have put a manual pto on it I will



#7 JRJ OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 02:08 PM

My experience with  electric pto's have been a bad battery. Now this test won't cost you anything; take the battery to just about any auto parts store and they will load test it for you to see if you have a dead or bad cell.

 

 

Dick


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#8 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2013 - 09:45 PM

Here is why I say it is in the safety circuit:

 

JD212 wiring.jpg

 

With the engine running and the PTO off, the coil gets power from both of the pink wires: 1 comes from the seat safety switch (closed), the other from the PTO switch (CA closed).  When you place the PTO switch in the on position (now CD closed), you loose power to the coil from the PTO switch.  You are left with the pink line from the seat switch to power the coil.  If that switch is bad, you will loose all the voltage to the coil.  If it is dirty, you can loose 50% or more of the voltage at the coil.  Follow the Pink wire from the ignition switch terminal B through the seat switch to the coil.

 


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#9 lyall OFFLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2013 - 09:07 PM

thanks for the wiring diagram New.Canadian.DB.Owner

 

I did not see it last night - I wish I did

I did the chisel test tonight with a battery charger - the charger went up to around 3 amps and the chisel stuck to the coil - yeah

put it all back together  and put it back on

tried it again and it still started to die

 

looked the wiring over and ( oh sh$t) I had the desk pan off so the wires to the seat was opened.  made a connector to close the loop of the safety switch for the seat.

tried the pto switch again and it is working now

 

I was thinking that it started and ran okay and I did not think about the seat switch 

not use to the electric pto, that you have to be on the seat for it to run

 

still learning as we all have to do

 

thanks all for your help


Edited by lyall, April 24, 2013 - 09:08 PM.

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#10 lyall OFFLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2013 - 09:19 PM

lmiller

 

here is a way to test the pto

hope it help you

 

test pto.png

 

test pto -2.png


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#11 horseldy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2013 - 08:03 AM

Hi All:  Found this site on a search for info on same issue: the engine dies when the pto is engaged.  I have checked out the seat switch by unplugging the connector under the seat and bridging the two ends with a wire..and still get engine shut-off when the pto switch is thrown.  At one point the pto worked then quit again just prior to my test on the seat switch. I do notice that the AMP gague drops way into the negative as the engine starts to sputter.  The battery checks out fine with the little checker I have.   Any thought of testing the rest of the circuits were ended by darkness so if anyone has some suggestions I would appreciate it so I am not tearing this thing apart needlessly.  Thanks. 



#12 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2013 - 04:18 PM

Hi All:  Found this site on a search for info on same issue: the engine dies when the pto is engaged.  I have checked out the seat switch by unplugging the connector under the seat and bridging the two ends with a wire..and still get engine shut-off when the pto switch is thrown.  At one point the pto worked then quit again just prior to my test on the seat switch. I do notice that the AMP gague drops way into the negative as the engine starts to sputter.  The battery checks out fine with the little checker I have.   Any thought of testing the rest of the circuits were ended by darkness so if anyone has some suggestions I would appreciate it so I am not tearing this thing apart needlessly.  Thanks. 

 

Sure sounds like a direct short somewhere.  Good chance it's the PTO electromagnet gone south. With engine off, you can run a test wire direct off the amp gauge to the pto clutch & it pulls an extreme negative, then it's for sure the clutch gone bad.  They should only pull 3 to 5 amps max.


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#13 horseldy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2013 - 09:05 PM

Update on the "short from hell".  I have torn the rear body off and tried to isolate / locate the source of the shourt.  I have ruled out the PTO coil as the engine dies even when the PTO is unplugged.  Also ruled out the seat and transmission safety switches by bridging them.  That leaves the PTO switch and ignition switch.  They will be ordered in the am.  Of course getting the rear fender deck off is a bear and the plastic piece that surrounds the shifter lever cracked so it is on the order list.  If any of you have a suggestion for something I am missing, I sure would appreciate it. 



#14 horseldy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2013 - 09:13 PM

PS:  In this picture of the shifter area  #16 is the part that broke,,in case some one out there has a patrs tractor and is willing to let it go.

212_WW_103.gif

 



#15 horseldy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 22, 2013 - 07:34 AM

This is continued under a new post: "212 electrical short"  I figured it is not the PTO.






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