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Belleville Washers?


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#1 robert_p43 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 08:32 PM

My Tecumseh manual shows these washers on the head bolts for my HH100 engine.  Are these critical?  I know they aren't there.  In fact, a couple of the bolts have no washers at all.

I am making progress,  There wasn't much carbon buildup when I removed the head.  I did find a good reason why my tractor won't start.  The exhaust valve was stuck in the wide open position.

Thank You,

Robert


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#2 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 08:58 PM

I am not sure if they are needed on these or not? I just looked at my HH120 and it doesn't have them either.


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#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 09:02 PM

I am not sure if they are needed on these or not? I just looked at my HH120 and it doesn't have them either.

 

No HH I have ever owned had Belleville washers on them.


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#4 robert_p43 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 09:08 PM

That's all I needed to know.  Someone told me that they didn't think they were on his engine either and said that B&S didn't use them either. 


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#5 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 09:41 PM

I don't think any of mine have them either... But maybe they should after reading how they work.
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#6 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 09:41 PM

The HH 120 on my '68 Super 12 won't hold the head bolts without them.  Been there - done that


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#7 robert_p43 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 06, 2013 - 10:14 PM

I guess they would act like lock washers in a way.  I figured they had something to do with the torque.

My daughter had a Cavalier with a cracked head.  They bought a head and they threw out the old head bolts so I asked why.  They told me the head bolts, these days, are called "stretchable" and once you torque them, if you take them out, they must be replaced, not like the old style head bolts.  Perhaps old style automotive head bolts used Belleville Washers? Just thinking out loud here.


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#8 Oo-v-oO OFFLINE  

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Posted April 07, 2013 - 12:36 AM

Bellville washers are not like lock washers - they are extremely stiff springs. When the head bolts are torqued down, the washers compress and provide a more steady clamping force, even as the bolts, block, and head expand and contract from the heating and cooling of normal operation. Lock washers are much less stiff and only provide enough spring action to get the square edge of the split washer to bite into the bolt head and material they are tightened against. 

 

Bellville washers and stretch bolts kind of do the same thing, except that Bellville washers are reusable - up to a point. 

 

Can you do without? Probably yes, but based on Gtractor's feedback if you can get them I would. 


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#9 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted April 07, 2013 - 07:06 AM

I'm not understanding something. If you don't have any washer under the bolt, won't it gall up the mating surface of the head? Kohlers have a thick washer under the bolt.


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#10 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted April 07, 2013 - 07:20 AM

Think of the belleville washer as a spring. That's how it functions. It will help maintain a constant pressure on the head with expansion and contraction of the head, bolts and cylinder during temperature cycles. I wonder if using them in that engine has something to do with the temperature dynamics and materials used in that particular design. Never seen them used on a head but run into them all the time on the lab equipment I work on. 


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#11 Oo-v-oO OFFLINE  

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Posted April 07, 2013 - 08:51 AM

I'm not understanding something. If you don't have any washer under the bolt, won't it gall up the mating surface of the head? Kohlers have a thick washer under the bolt.

 

This is true, but take apart something like your typical Briggs-powered 3hp push mower and you won't find any. They usually have a bolt head with a large flat on the bottom of the head, like a washer but not separate from the bolt itself. I guess that between the smooth surface, additional surface area, and design torque they don't have a problem with galling.

 

Generally speaking, though, it is good practice to use a washer of some sort between a steel bolt and an aluminum head. The Bellville serves a dual purpose in this case. 


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#12 robert_p43 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 07, 2013 - 01:39 PM

I'm not understanding something. If you don't have any washer under the bolt, won't it gall up the mating surface of the head? Kohlers have a thick washer under the bolt.

Actually, where there are no washers, there is something between the bolt head and head surface. There is a heavy bracket under 3 of the bolts that serves to mount the gas tank tray, one of which also helps hold the side cover or cooling shroud.  2 more bolts also hold the same cover on.  #9 bolt holds a bracket that holds the choke cable.  There are just 3 that contact the head dirrectly, #1, #3, and #8.  These do have a washer, but just one.

The manual says there should be a flat washer with the sharp side toward the bolt head, then the belleville, with the crown up, then the head bolt.


Edited by robert_p43, April 07, 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#13 robert_p43 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 29, 2013 - 03:28 PM

I found them!

Since JD put Tecumsehs in the 112's, we looked them up.  I ordered them today from the closest Deere place.  They didn't stock them but they are available.

JDM44151

If they turn out to be the wrong thing, and that's really doubtfull, I will let you know in a few days when they come in.






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