Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Help Or Advice Needed On My 1655


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted March 23, 2013 - 05:19 PM

The last 10 days have been challenging but also interesting.

 

I got my new engine for the 1655. It was in a previous life a Linmar LX 790 but time and neglect resulted in a broken rod. Its been rebuilt to mirror a B series engine including  the correct starter, points and condensor. It still has the 20HP carb and cam  so as the builder told me I have a B series 20HP engine.

 

It runs sweet with about 20-24PSI on the oil pressure guage.  Per Mr Daniel ( the keeper of all knowledge on Masseys) said an oil pressure guage is a must to monitor the health of a Onan. So i took his advice and added a 40PSI mechanical guage. 

 

Now to my challenges and I have 4 of them

 

First the electric clutch.  It is the old style that does not have springs for setting the air gap. Its mounted to the engine block with 4 #10 machine screws. Occasionaly when its engaged the ammeter will go from 2-4 mps of charge to a solid discharge of 10 Amps. That discharge rate may last a second or as much as 3 seconds.  Is this a clutch issue or is it something else I should be looking at.  I do know that I have a voltage reguolator issue. A new one from Car Quest will not produce a positive charge when the clutch is engaged and the headlights are on.  A new voltage regulator is on the way. But I think this must be a clutch issue as the current drawn by the clutch is offset by the alternator for the most part except those moments when it decides to draw a ton of current.

 

Group Thoughts?

 

Second challenge: The  double sheave pulley on the PTO Shaft.  My electric clutch is the 5&1/2 inch dbl sheave variation, and the dbl pulley on the PTO shaft is 5&1/2 inch. Here is the issue. One sheave on the PTO pulley is a true 1/2 inch wide and the 41 inch belt rides nicely in the sheave. The second sheave  appears to be narrower and the 1/2 inch wide belt  rides high in the sheave  and throws the belt off. It appears the second sheave is closer to 3/8 inch. Has anyone seen this before? And what are the fixes?

 

I have a JD 400 dbl sheave pully but  it has a lager diameter and the 2 sheaves  are wider apart than the clutch sheaves. So the belts would not align and the mower and snow blower would turn slower.

 

Group Thoughts?

 

Third challenge; Belt adjuster on the flywheel end.  I am using a Gates A belt 23 inches in length. The manual says to compress the spring to 1.25 inches. I cannot compress it less than a 1&1/2 inches.  The steel tube ferrule appears to be to long as I keep backing off the top nut and tighten (compressing the spring) the bottom nut. The belts are tight and no slippage.

 

Group Thoughts?

Should I cut the ferrule shorter to allow more room to tighten the nut and compress the spring more, or leave it alone since the belts are tight?

 

Fourth Challenge and the biggest of all.  This tractor had a sunstrand transmission. The one that was in it had a great input shaft but was sloppy loose. Meaning that when left running at a stop it had serious creep  and the pedal never returned to nuetral  when you let go of it. I had a second Sunstrand that had a  horribly  battered input shaft but when I did have it in the tractor the pedal always returned to nuetral and was a strong performing transmission.

So  I took the good input shaft from the slopppy loose  unit and put it in the good transmission. I did find a seal and gasket kit locally  and replaced the O Ring  behind the charge pump and the 2 orings  on the motor side of the center section and the gaskets.

 

I have 5 qts of oil in the unit and now here is the rub

 

At an idle the mid hydraulic lift cylinder just barely lifts the snow blower. ( Yes I have the helper springs attached) at a fast throttle setting it lifts just fine. When taking it for a drive  The tractor starts forward a  good clip and then starts slowing down.  When going up a small incline on the street the tractor continues forward but it gets slower than a snails pace. Why is this happening? Coming diown the hill the tractor just zips right along

In reverse there does not appear to be any  reduction of avalable speed. I do have full pedal travel so I dont think its a binding issue or adjustment issue.

 

Group thought?  and on the tranny I am open to all suggestions and No i do not have any hydraulic pressure guages.

 

Thanks for allowing me to cry my woes

 

 



#2 WNYTractorTinkerer OFFLINE  

WNYTractorTinkerer

    Tinker Master

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 10789
  • 8,317 Thanks
  • 4,664 posts
  • Location: Avon, NY

Posted March 23, 2013 - 06:07 PM

Sounds like the motor just isn't the same power as the old one..  The Electrical issue may be the stator amp output may be too low on the new engine..  

 

Tranny hydro issues could just be a dirty filter or air in the pump or system..  

 

I can't help with the belts / pulleys as I'm unfamiliar with your machine..



#3 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted March 23, 2013 - 06:53 PM

New filter installed and the hydro has run for 20 minutes so I think it's primed and purged

The stator is a 15 amp stator putting out 30.9 VAC at high rpm

#4 olcowhand OFFLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,650 Thanks
  • 29,840 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted March 23, 2013 - 07:07 PM

Sounds like the pto clutch has bad coils that are intermittently shorting out.  The entire coil may be loose in it's housing & shorting against the sides, or slipping outward against the clutch plate.  

  As to the sheaves, I'd like to see close up pics.

The slowing down is likely just the belts slipping due to you not being able to set the proper tension.  Get the belt issue fixed first, and likely the hydro action will be fine.  Slow lifting at slow speeds is not unusual.  Can you take a pic of the drive belt tensioner adjustment?  My 1655 doesn't have any adjustment system as I direct drove my engine directly to the hydro being I don't have rear pto.



#5 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted March 23, 2013 - 07:55 PM

I will post some photos in the morning wife says time to stay in and watch the snow fall here in KC

#6 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted March 24, 2013 - 06:53 PM

Daniel. We had lots of snow over night and I did my best clearing drives today. Good news bad news. Good is I got 7 plus mine cleared. Bad news is that on any incline it just did not have the ability to pull itself up the hill. I will also confess that I have the unit filled  with Dex/Merc transmission fluid. Could that be the issue?

 

tn_gallery_70_440_84236.jpg

 

I am attaching several photos to give you an idea of what I have as a front PTO Shaft pulley and  belt tensioner spring and ferrule

 


Edited by Petenpole, March 24, 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#7 TAHOE OFFLINE  

TAHOE
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 24522
  • 6,497 Thanks
  • 4,949 posts
  • Location: "Hamiltucky" Ohio

Posted March 24, 2013 - 07:43 PM

Tudor has ran Dex III in his 1655 for 20 plus years without a problem. My 1855 the 2 times I had it running would creep when in neutral. I read the manual and I think it just needed adjustment from wear.

Was any of adjustment parts changed at one time? I took mine apart and looked to be extra non factory parts, going to be a headache whenever I go to put back together.  

Hopefully Tudor will respond, he seems to know quite abut about the Sundstrands, but does sounds like belt slippage.



#8 olcowhand OFFLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,650 Thanks
  • 29,840 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted March 24, 2013 - 07:58 PM

I can't locate my info now, but I'm almost sure the belts are supposed to be 22", not 23.  That would take up 1/2" of your adjustment, plus wear on the pulleys make the belts sit in deeper, taking away more adjustment.  23" belts would work, but is putting a lot of angle on the shafts.  I would go back to 22" belts, AND cut the steel ferrule tube 1/2" shorter.  This will give you plenty of adjustment range.  I still think it's a tension problem, not the oil either.

  As to the front pto problem, I can't really make it all out in the pics.  



#9 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted March 25, 2013 - 01:40 PM

Ok Daniel, I am getting more education than I wanted but here is todays update

 

I took a tape measure and measured the distance between the floor and the top of the hydro spline shaft, then measured the height from floor to the top of the shaft at the pulley end (near the flywheel).

 

Yep there is a difference of 3/4 of an inch. That means new belts are needed. The front end is lower than the back end and it would eventually put a strain on the good splines and that is not good if its going to last me another 20 yrs.

 

I also went up to the pump rebuilder shop where I got the seal kit from and spoke with the man up there. He was smiling as he remembered me  and asked one question;

 

"Did you lap the barrels and valve plates"?  The blank look on my face brought a smilel to his and he said you are losing hydraulic pressure and  the lifts are not working and you may be slowing down quickly. I just shook my head yes.

 

He told me to tear it down bring both barrels and valve plates to him, he would lap them for $35.00 and then i can once again re-assemble it and most likely have a strong tranny.

 

So I am getting 2 more belts, will pull the transmission, tear it down ( I know how to take it apart)  have him lap the parts and buy another gasket seal kit and reassemble.

 

I guess I will update you on that process next weekend. 

 

As for the PTO shaft pulley? When i get the snow blower off I will take the pulley outside and use a micrometer and photo the measurements and  belts in the sheaves.

 

Hopefully before my 56th birthday I will have the beast back up and zipping along.


  • olcowhand and Texas Deere and Horse have said thanks

#10 olcowhand OFFLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,650 Thanks
  • 29,840 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted March 25, 2013 - 02:34 PM

Yes, best to take the stuff to the guy, as that's a bargain rate for lapping everything.  May be the biggest part of the problem.  I still don't think you were getting proper tension to the belts, but doing both will almost guarantee fantastic results.  

While all apart, you still might need to shorten the little steel sleeve at least 3/8" to take up for some wear in the pulleys.  But you can check the need for doing this after getting the new belts.

  Done right this time, and taking good care of her, this machine may do you till your 86th birthday!  :D


  • Petenpole said thank you

#11 coldone OFFLINE  

coldone

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 839
  • 1,631 Thanks
  • 1,668 posts
  • Location: Central NC

Posted March 25, 2013 - 05:21 PM

My 1855 did not like the A size belts. It would give the same problems as you describe. I finally broke down and bout OEM belts through Partstree.com. It has not slipped since then and I have burried a 12 inch plow behind it with the front wheels off the ground. I would get the oem belts first before I would tear into the hydro.



#12 TUDOR OFFLINE  

TUDOR

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 915
  • 543 Thanks
  • 497 posts
  • Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario

Posted March 26, 2013 - 05:18 AM

If you can put the belts on without putting the pulleys tight together, they're too long.

 

Check the condition of the tensioning spring. One of the repairs that mine has been waiting for is a replacement for a broken spring.

 

On the first pump, grab the trunions on either side of the pump and try turning them in opposite directions. Any movement means the pins are coming out of the swash plate. There are 2 pins in each end of the swash plate, make sure you put the same size pins back in. No cheating with a longer pin. Right Daniel?

 

Do you know why the shaft was loose in that pump? It sounds like one or both bearings are done, and that should not cause the return to neutral or creep issues. The swash plate will.

 

I wouldn't cut the tube on the tensioner. As a last resort before that fix, if proper length belts don't cure it, a couple of washers that will fit over the tube and be supported by another washer on the bottom nut will collapse the spring a bit more. If those fixes don't work, then cut the tube.

 

My Sundstrand has 2500 hours on Dexron. No lubrication issues.

 

For the front PTO pulley, make a hardwood (maple) wheel about 3" in diameter and 3/4" thick with the edge turned down to about a 74* V  deep enough to not quite reach bottom on the good pulley. It should match the good groove . Make a lever about 20-24" long with a forked end that you can mount the wheel on with a bolt and you can use that to reform the second groove using the frame for a steady rest. Idle speed on the engine with the clutch activated on one belt should work fine. Sneak up on the final size, checking against the good groove. It's just like turning a spindle on a wood lathe or metal spinning a pot.

 

 

Make sure that the wheel will go the same distance into each groove.


Edited by TUDOR, March 26, 2013 - 05:36 AM.

  • IamSherwood said thank you

#13 Petenpole OFFLINE  

Petenpole

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 70
  • 145 Thanks
  • 149 posts
  • Location: Independence, Mo

Posted April 07, 2013 - 05:27 PM

A lot of advice was shared and now 2 weeks later I have some good news.

I pulled the hydro (sundstrand) and rebuilt it. I then installed green belts 6822 (1 inch shorter) than what I previously had installed. I also have gotten the drive shaft all the way back on the splined hydro input shaft to insure the u joint has the best splines possible.

End result? The hydro appears awesome and with the diff in high the tractor flies.

Next on the fix list the front PTO pulley and the voltage regulator.

I will be posting a couple more messages first how to fill the hydro fluid in under 15 minutes and a detailed explanation with photos on how to overhaul a sundstrand. The overhaul is actually pretty easy more just about taking the big step and diving in.
  • olcowhand and coldone have said thanks




Top