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My 1968 John Deere 110


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#271 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:19 PM

I went back over the beginning of the thread to see if I could tell what kind of carb you have but could not.  Carter or Walbro? I went round and round with the 120 and between the carb, bad shut-off valve, and bad hose routing I was ready to pull out my hair.   

 

According to JDParts.com the ignition switch is AM102543 (SUB FOR AM30771) which is used on a bunch of different machines.  Installing the incorrect switch can be a very bad thing.  I am still looking for the Napa part I used on my 120 but cannot find it.


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#272 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:24 PM

Also found this after a bit of google-foo and the details about the magneto on these tractors is worth noting:

http://www.yesterday...ardent&th=63617

 

Posted by Ron Bachus on 01-15-2006 11:45:28 

My '68 110 starts and runs well, but the ignition switch does not stop the engine. I have to turn off the engine by pulling the spark plug lead. I have replaced the switch with a new one, but the same still happens. I went thru the electrical diagrams in the service manual, and everything appears to be wired correctly. I am not sure what the "mechanism" is for killing the engine, so I don't know where to look next. Any advise??? 



Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Bob    Date: 01-15-2006 23:10:53    Thread: 63626.html
What's your serial number? Different ignition systems were used over the years. I suspect your's has magneto ignition, and there is a wire from the points/condensor to the ignition switch, probably with a connection or two in between.

The magneto makes it's own electricity for it's operation, and when the key is turned to "off", the ignition switch simply grounds out the mag, and "kills" the engine.

You may have the wrong switch for the S. N. of the tractor, or an open circuit between the condensor terminal and the "kill" terminal on the igntion switch.

Post the serial number of the tractor, and the part # of the ignition switch you are using. 

 

Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-16-2006 16:48:52    Thread:63639.html
The tractor SN is 103574M- I got a new switch from the local JD dealer, part #AM 30771, per the parts manual I have for the tractor. It is a 4-prong switch, identical to the one that was on the tractor when I bought it. Unfortunately, I have the same problem with the old and new ignition switches...The only connections I have not thoroughly inspected are those "behind" the fly wheel going to the stator assembly. The diagrams in the service manual are not detailed enough to distinguish the correct connections, but I have two wires leading to the stator from the main wire harness, and there are two coming out toward the front of the tractor, one is the spark plug wire, and the other leads directly to the breaker points. Another wire (from the same connection on the points) goes to the condenser. That is the only wire going to the condenser. It appears on the diagrams that there should only be one wire connection to the points, but as I said, it is hard to tell. 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Bob    Date: 01-17-2006 00:27:10    Thread: 63653.html
That switch number should be correct, there is a newer number, too, AM102543.

There will be 3 wires connecting the engine to the tractor chassis.

2 are AC wires from the alternator stator under the flywheel that pass through the engine harness connector, and on to the voltage regulator.

The other is the "kill" wire that goes to the ignition switch, and shorts out the mag when the key is shut off.

There will be one wire on the points, that leads to the condensor. On the condensor, there will be the lead fron the points, and the lead from the coil under the flywheel. That lead will be either double or tee'd off, so there is the other lead to the engine harness plug, where it mates to the tractor harness, and winds up at the "kill" terminal on the ignition switch.

Simply put, the primary ignition current to the points and coil gets shorted to ground when the key is turned to "off".



 

Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-17-2006 20:31:23    Thread:63669.html
Thanx for your help Bob- Based upon your description, it appears as though someone attempted to rewire part of the system and messed up- I do have three wires at the connector leading to the engine (from the main wire harness), one goes to the switch and the other 2 go to the regulator- but on the engine side, there are only two wires on that connector, both of which go to the stator. So it appears one wire is missing. If I understand you correctly, the wire from the switch should splice together with the wire from the stator, and then go to the condenser. Also on the condenser will be a wire that goes to the points. So all I should really need to do is continue the wire lead from the switch, take it behind the flywheel, and splice it in with the existing wire from the stator to the points. 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Bob    Date: 01-17-2006 22:40:23    Thread: 63670.html
All you need to do is get the wire from the switch connected to the condensor, which is a common junction point of the switch wire, the wire from the points, and the wire from the magneto coil behind the flywheel that connects to the condensor.

The wire from the switch must NEVER send battery voltage into the mag ignition system. If someone has re-wired at the switch, or you would have had the wrong switch, and battery voltage got sent to the ignition system, likely the points AND the coil would get fried. 

 

Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-18-2006 15:39:48    Thread:63680.html
OK- Right now, a wire from the stator goes directly to the points, and another wire from the points goes to the condenser. I have to re-wire that so the wire from the stator goes first to the condenser, and another wire goes from the condenser to the points (so the points are essentially the 'end of the line'). In addition, I must extend the wire from the switch directly to the condenser, with no connections in-between. There will then be 3 wire connections at the condenser, and only one at the points. The two wires I have running "into" the stator, and the 2 running "out of" the stator will remain the same, except one coming out (not the spark plug lead) will go first to the condenser, not the points. This appears to be consistent with one of the drawings in the manual. Is this summary accurate? I just want to be sure so I don't fry anything. Thanx again. 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: gab    Date: 01-16-2006 19:17:43    Thread: 63645.html
If you have a plug wire coming out behind the flywheel then you have a magneto and need a ground wire from the ignition switch when the key is turned off. Look around again, there should be another wire going to the points or mag. Jim 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: gab    Date: 01-16-2006 19:17:01    Thread: 63644.html
If you have a plug wire coming out behind the flywheel then you have a magneto and need a ground wire from the ignition switch when the key is turned off. Look around again, there should be another wire going to the points or mag. Jim 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-16-2006 19:58:57    Thread:63648.html
I am certain there are no other wires going to the points or mag- before replying, I again checked the service manual- the best diagram shows two wire connections at the condenser and one at the points- I have one at the condenser and two at the points- could this be responsible for not stopping the engine? If so, wouldn't there be problems elsewhere? Also, the ignition switch is only 4-prong, with no space for a 5th, "grounding" wire- wouldn't the fact that the switch is bolted to the dashboard act as a ground? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: sha nnon from ohio    Date: 01-15-2006 12:02:57   Thread: 63618.html
Trace all your wires from the switch and see if there isn't a short? The 110's use a battery ignition system so pulling the sparkplug wire DOES NOT shut off the coil as it is fed +12v from the switch and if left on WILL run down the battery if points are closed and possibly damage the coil or the points... 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-15-2006 17:37:15    Thread:63625.html
Thanx for the reply- I have thoroughly inspected the wiring and all was in good shape- no damage, no loose connections, no shorts. What else could be causing the problem? In the mean time, how should I "turn off" the engine without the key working? 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Timberoak 2119    Date: 01-16-2006 13:43:02    Thread:63637.html
Where are you getting your switch? If not I would get the proper switch by model and serial number from a John Deere dealer. The reason I mention this that there are more than one five terminal switch available. The switches will fit and plug in but are NOT interchangeable. Do not use a switch from short line or auto parts store as they will look at your switch and say this will work. Just a thought, good luck, David 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-16-2006 16:52:03    Thread:63640.html
I purchased the switch from the local JD dealer, citing the tractor SN and the parts manual I have for the tractor, so I hope its correct- they hit me for $20 on the switch alone...Thanx. 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: ricedaddy    Date: 01-16-2006 19:29:19    Thread:63646.html
find a small engine place that sells parts from "Rotary" out of Geargia, I will try to get you a number tomorrow! 


Response: Re: JD 110 ignition switch
Poster: Ron Bachus    Date: 01-16-2006 20:00:24    Thread:63649.html
Thanks, I appreciate it. 

 

 


Edited by Trav1s, October 13, 2013 - 09:27 PM.

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#273 Navy Chief OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:25 PM

Its a Carter "N"  even though I made it start and ran it for approx. 20 mins idle and high power, the only thing it wont run without assistance, I took it apart 3 times and checked float dimensions and jet valve movement  and I blew out all orifices and used a can of carb cleaner ensuring it was clean.

 

PS I disconnected the HOT wire and the engine kept running and I turned the key off and it still kept running


Edited by Spain, October 13, 2013 - 09:28 PM.

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#274 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:28 PM

Carter is a good thing... Let me do some more digging.  Think of this a prep for my '68 110.  :smilewink:


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#275 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:42 PM

Worth checking out...
http://www.weekendfr...335/122972.html

 

http://www.weekendfr...335/275078.html

 

http://www.weekendfr.../17/250195.html

 

http://www.weekendfr.../335/93912.html

 

It seems these 1968s with the magnetos can be a pain...


Edited by Trav1s, October 13, 2013 - 09:49 PM.


#276 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 09:44 PM

Its a Carter "N"  even though I made it start and ran it for approx. 20 mins idle and high power, the only thing it wont run without assistance, I took it apart 3 times and checked float dimensions and jet valve movement  and I blew out all orifices and used a can of carb cleaner ensuring it was clean.

Have you rebuilt the Carb..If so, did you replace both the needle and seat? If you had a Brass needle and replaced it with a Rubber tipped needle and didn't replace the seat the needle will stick closed and not let fuel in the bowl.


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#277 Navy Chief OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 10:06 PM

Yep replaced the needle and brass seat with the rebuild kit, I wish I could find my old needle Id put it back on with its seat, Im going to look for it in my junk


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#278 Navy Chief OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 10:09 PM

Travis by reading those Mine is the coil ignition system does not have magneto

 

The parts manual shows the 110 as having a magneto stator with no coil that's not mine, the 112 shows a coil with a stator my set up looks like that I guess

 

Don't know if mine has a magneto or not guess I will have to tear the cover off


Edited by Spain, October 13, 2013 - 11:13 PM.


#279 Navy Chief OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 10:11 PM

Carter is a good thing... Let me do some more digging.  Think of this a prep for my '68 110.  :smilewink:

Travis can you take a pic of your ignition wires on the 68 IE condenser points wire hook up and coil and resistor block



#280 1971Deere OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 10:24 PM

Travis by reading those Mine is the coil ignition system does not have magneto

A 1968 should have had a magneto ignition when new. A lot were changed to a battery type ignition later. You will get it sorted out, you just need to figure out how it was rewired. Don't use a 1968 wiring diagram, You also need a later model ignition switch


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#281 dropped82 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 10:46 PM

I may be wrong here (have been quite a few times), but I thought the only JD 100 series of those years with a mag ignition was the 112 with a Tecumseh HH100. I don't think any of the JD Kohler's had them. Tomorrow, I'm gonna look for a diagram I had and see if I can see something missing. The shutoff for these tractors is done by cutting power to the coil which turns off the ignition. No power, no spark.

Eric

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#282 1971Deere OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 11:00 PM

My 1971 110 is a magneto, My 1972 110 is battery type. The 8hp K181 was magneto until mid 1972. All 10hp Kohlers were Battery type.

 

Attached is a test procedure for the switch on a battery type ignition.

 

swtest001.jpg



#283 Navy Chief OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 11:23 PM

SO now I don't even know if I have the right switch installed? it had some splices and wires added to it close to the ignition switch don't know what the extra wires were they went no where I removed them.

 

It appears my tractor has been upgraded, has a coil system with points and condenser, it has one wire coming from the motor to the condenser, not sure what that wire is I assume its kill wire, then it has one positive wire coming from the wiring harness to the resistor block at 12V volts then the resistor block steps it down to 6V then a positive wire goes to the coil.

 

Im really confused the parts manual shows a magneto system with no coil for my S/N



#284 1971Deere OFFLINE  

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 11:51 PM

Well, I have a few more books I can look in. Will need your tractors serial number,and any extra added accs like electric lift?  Lights?


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#285 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 06:40 AM

Travis can you take a pic of your ignition wires on the 68 IE condenser points wire hook up and coil and resistor block

 

Yes I will but the wiring is really hacked up on it.  Probably will not be able to get to it until the end of the week.  I see that the wiring harness is available from Deere.  I am itching to do something so I might have to hunt down a dealer and order one.






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