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3416h Vickers Hydro Problem


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#1 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 08:19 AM

Hi

I hope someone can help me, im having problems with the hydro.

When i got the tractor it did´nt move when it was cold, (about 30 seconds) but when the hydro warms up it worked fine. i thought it maybee was a bloked filter

Anyway i still wanted to rebuild the hydro, because it was leaking pretty bad on my new garage floor, so i disconneted the hydro from the tractor and replaced the oil seal in the hydro motor and the o-rings and oil seal in the pump. I did´nt disasamble the transfer block because i did´nt see it as a problem when the hydro was working before.

I put it then back on the tractor and filled it up with ATF dexron automatic transmission oil, running it only at the motorstarter while mowing the lever forward and reverse. When it did´nt take more fluid and no more bubbels was seen it should be ready to go, it says in the workshop manual. But mine is not mowing at all.

Then i searched the internet and found something about shimming the main relief valve, in mine there was 6 shims, in the manual there is only 3. I tried with only 3 shims, without shims and adding shims, and for several hours trying to bleed it from air and still no luck.

Is this really that hard to get this hydro running again, or am i doing something wrong, does anyone tried it before and what did you do to get it running again?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thomas


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#2 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 08:56 AM

Welcome to the forum! Is this by chance a 'Vickers? If it is, I can edit your title for you, but that's about all I can help you with! Don't know a thing about all your doing!



#3 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 09:06 AM

Hey. Thanks. yes it is a vickers. Just my spelling. Yes that would be nice.



#4 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 09:10 AM

The Allis 416 I used to have....I put new seals on the swash plate rock shafts, so only had the pump off & apart, but I had no problems at all after getting it together.  I assume your model has it, but is there a chance the free-wheeling lever has been knocked into neutral?  And I seen the spelling typo & fixed it.


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#5 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 09:22 AM

Welcome to GTT. Check in the manuals section for the rebuilding manual. Good Luck with it. Rick



#6 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 09:59 AM

No help here. Haven't opened up a Hydro unit yet. Like boyscout said, check the manuals section.



#7 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 12:01 PM

Do you have a T66X Vickers.  If so, I've made a couple of postings relating to that item.  Search for T66, Vickers or HB112 & they should come up. There is a posting that shows the innards & one on the seal kit sold by PRO-ACTIVE Fluid Power.    There is one relating to the free wheel / tow link mentioned above (my was broken).  I have some manuals on the item if you need them.  I think they are all in the manuals section but there might be some other stuff that isn't.

 

By the way, the operating manual actually says not to move the tractor until the T66X is warm to the touch.  



#8 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 12:39 PM

I thought about your question over lunch & re-read it a couple of times.  I take it you disassembled the pump (top unit) and not the motor (lower unit) or the transfer block (side unit).  When you re-assembled the unit, did you put the the pins in that secure the pintles to the swash plate yoke?  Did you get the rotating unit back in the correct way round (it will go in upside down)?  Did you reinstall the three pins under the conical washer?  Did you re-install the woodruff key on the input pulley, and the spring pin on the control arm?  Did you get an an airlock in the cooler? 



#9 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 12:50 PM

Thanks for the posts. Yes it is at T66X. I had the transmission rebuild with new seals and bearings, so the free wheel lever is working. But when i look down in the reservior i can see the oil flow, it´s like the oil isn´t going to the motor.

 

New.Canadian.DB.Owner what did you do when you filled the hydro with oil, and how did you bleed it and was it easy, or difficault?

 

Thomas



#10 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 01:27 PM

New.Canadian.DB.Owner yes to all you questions. Exept about the airlock. But how did you avoid this?

 

Thomas



#11 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 01:33 PM

I filled the lines to the cooler before reconnecting them to the T66X, and then followed the procedure in my manual.  

 

startup after repair.jpg  (So that didn't work.  Picture scaled weirdly.  Here is the text)

 

 

 

Take the following precautions when starting
a vehicle after repair:
1. Before connecting drain lines and before
installing transmission in vehicle, fill transmission
pump and motor with new, clean oil
through case drain openings.
2. Connect all hydraulic lines to the
proper transmission port lines and set hydraulic
controls in neutral position.
3. Loosen or remove reservoir cap and
add new, clean oil to reservoir.
4. Jog the starter several times (about one
minute) with engine coil wire disconnected. Recheck
reservoir oil level. If necessary, add oil to
maintain operating oil level.
5. Replace engine coil wire. Start the engine
and run it to a speed of about 800 rpm
(avoid high speed start-up). Recheck reservoir
oil level again.
6. Increase pump speed to 1800 rpm and
move the controls to the forward position and
run vehicle slowly on level ground for a few
yards.
7. Then, after a short interval (about 10
seconds), place controls in reverse and move vehicle
slowly backwards an equal distance.
8. After several short trips back and
forth, the air should be dispelled from your
hydraulic system. Check oil level; add oil if
necessary.
After all the above steps are complete, you
may operate the vehicle at regular speeds and
loads. In cold weather, make sure the hydraulic
components are warn to the touch before operating
the vehicle.

 

Here is a stupid Q: Do you have the lines back on correctly?  Left side of cooler to top of T66X.  Right side of cooler to to to reservoir.  Lower two outlets on reservoir to front face of the T66X.  Did you collapse a hose on one of the tight bends?  I had to install a spring to keep my top hose from collapsing on the 180* bend.  I have one other line that is partially collapsed & will likely need to get fixed at some point.

 

DSCN2890.JPG DSCN2894.JPG

 

Here are some photos of th neutral / drive lever.  It operates a doohickey just inside the T66X mounting hole.  If you nudged it when re-installing the T66X, it may be in the neutral position.  Left is neutral.  Right is drive.

 

DSCN2898.JPG DSCN2899.JPG

 


Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, March 03, 2013 - 01:37 PM.


#12 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 01:45 PM

If you want to know if you have oil flow, remove some fluid from the reservoir until you get just below the upper connection hole (the return line from the cooler).  If you run it and fluid is running (not trickling) into the reservoir, you don't have an air lock or a plugged filter.  


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#13 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 02:05 PM

That is some really good info. I never seen that manual before. And nice with the pictures, then my hoses are right.

 

Does this means i have to push the tractor a few yards? Or should it be able to run by itself at this point?

 

6. Increase pump speed to 1800 rpm and
move the controls to the forward position and
run vehicle slowly on level ground for a few
yards.


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#14 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 02:44 PM

By the time you get to #6, the tractor should be moving under its own power.  Although, I had my tractor jacked up off the ground for those steps.  Too much snow & cold outside.

 

You say you had the transmission rebuilt, which means you had the wheel(s) & differential off the axle.  Did the woodruff key (#8), drive keys (#15) & hi-pro key (#20) go back in when you reinstalled the differential?  If not, the T66X will work, but you won't get tire rotation.


Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, March 03, 2013 - 02:45 PM.


#15 bissen83 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 03, 2013 - 03:29 PM

Yes it should be okay. When the free wheel lever is engaged, i can turn the wheels slowly and feel resistense in small steps from the pistons in the hydro motor.  What about the main releif valve. Du you have the 3 shims or more. And what about the thickness of the gaskets for the motor and the pump. I made my own gaskets with gasketpaper there is a little thicker than original. Could this be a problem?


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