Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Starting Grader Hydraulics Upgrade Update January 29 2013


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#16 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

Michiganmobileman

    Old Tractor Addict

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5678
  • 1,235 Thanks
  • 1,842 posts
  • Location: Barryton, Michigan

Posted January 30, 2013 - 06:39 PM

That is looking good Greg.

Can I make a suggestion ... ?

 

Having had some experience in using a power steering pump to power hydraulics on a garden tractor, I would recommend that you put a double pulley on the engine crankshaft so you can run both belts on the pump.

 

Make your setup so you can run one belt between the crank and the pump with the pump rotating out to tighten that belt.

Then run the other belt over the crank, pump and alternator with the alternator rotating out to tighten that belt.

 

Yes Ray you are very welcome to make suggestions when you see it necessary.  If I lived closer I would probably bug you for your suggestions, opinion (and help), in person, way, way too much :wave:.  I assume you had issues with the single belt slipping?  I did bring home a belt today and have about 120 degrees of contact on all three pulleys. The drive pulley is a weld on hub type, not welded together yet.  How easy would it be to find a 6 inch double with a 1 inch bore or with a weld in pulley to fit my hub(1 5/8 inch I think)? The one on the PS pump is fairly narrow in width. I Can search ebay of course but didnt know if you had another recommendation.  It would take a little bit of reworking of my mount but if I can get a double within budget (read CHEAP :D ), I will follow your suggestion.  I figure I have a few more months left before I will be able to use it anyway, so not in a big hurry.  Wanted to get things mounted up so I can start on the plumbing and electrical.

 

Thanks to all!!


  • KennyP said thank you

#17 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted January 30, 2013 - 07:44 PM

This is going to be a great thread to follow, Greg! I am looking forward to seeing how it comes out!

 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to help with any hydraulic questions. :D


  • Michiganmobileman said thank you

#18 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

Michiganmobileman

    Old Tractor Addict

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5678
  • 1,235 Thanks
  • 1,842 posts
  • Location: Barryton, Michigan

Posted January 30, 2013 - 08:08 PM

Quite a few upgrades going on here.

I'm looking forward to following along as you proceed.

Just a thought, but you might want to put inline shutoff valves in, just before the

 QCs. That way you could have an attachment ready to go, without messing with the hoses

for the trim and tilt cylinders. And visa versa. Of course, you'd want to have easy access to them, so

I don't know if that's at all possible.

Will, I meant to do this earlier, read the comment on my phone, hate to reply using my phone as I have been keyboarding for so long, got on with the laptop, then forgot, then got side tracked, whats that old peoples disease, CRS, ODD, KGL,  anyway.......

 

I am not sure of the use of the valves you mentioned. Two possibilities, Is it to be able to disconnect/reconnect under pressure?  Would valves in the lines to a cylinder allow it to be locked in place and not move while running something else from same spool?  Some other reason that my feeble wet brain hasnt stumbled on yet?   HMMMMMM now you got me thinking :wave:


  • IamSherwood said thank you

#19 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

IamSherwood

    Elf guardian

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2066
  • 8,379 Thanks
  • 7,696 posts
  • Location: Northern Ontario

Posted January 30, 2013 - 08:30 PM

  Would valves in the lines to a cylinder allow it to be locked in place and not move while running something else from same spool? 

 

Yes, that was my thought. That way, you wouldn't have to disconnect the lines to your grader cylinders, and

you could run something else. Like a sweeper, or a compactor.


  • KennyP and Michiganmobileman have said thanks

#20 jdcrawler OFFLINE  

jdcrawler

    tinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1639
  • 3,173 Thanks
  • 1,724 posts
  • Location: Madison, Indiana

Posted January 30, 2013 - 10:41 PM

Yes Ray you are very welcome to make suggestions when you see it necessary. If I lived closer I would probably bug you for your suggestions, opinion (and help), in person, way, way too much :wave:. I assume you had issues with the single belt slipping? I did bring home a belt today and have about 120 degrees of contact on all three pulleys. The drive pulley is a weld on hub type, not welded together yet. How easy would it be to find a 6 inch double with a 1 inch bore or with a weld in pulley to fit my hub(1 5/8 inch I think)? The one on the PS pump is fairly narrow in width. I Can search ebay of course but didnt know if you had another recommendation. It would take a little bit of reworking of my mount but if I can get a double within budget (read CHEAP :D ), I will follow your suggestion. I figure I have a few more months left before I will be able to use it anyway, so not in a big hurry. Wanted to get things mounted up so I can start on the plumbing and electrical.

Thanks to all!!

You can assert more pressure on the pump with cylinders than what it normally has to deal with on a power steering box so there is a greater chance of belt slippage.

Automotive belts are about 3/8 wide.
I didn't pay much attention to your engine drive pulley before but it looks like you have a 1/2 or 5/8 wide pulley on there.
That isn't going to work as the 3/8 belt will bottom out on the wider pulley.
Generally, 1/2 inch wide is the smallest width that you can get on store bought pulleys.

What I have always done is take a double automotive pulley ( crank, water pump or power steering pump ) and cut the center out on the lathe.
Then I weld the outside part of the automotive pulley to the center part of a regular steel pulley with the correct hub size.

I have some automotive pulleys so I'll take a look tomorrow and see if there is something that would work for you.

If you don't have access to a lathe, I would be happy to donate some time and weld up a pulley for you.


I am not sure of the use of the valves you mentioned. Two possibilities, Is it to be able to disconnect/reconnect under pressure? Would valves in the lines to a cylinder allow it to be locked in place and not move while running something else from same spool? Some other reason that my feeble wet brain hasnt stumbled on yet? HMMMMMM now you got me thinking .

This is also something that I have experience with.

If you have hydraulic cylinders at the back and the center and they are all connected to the same valve, than the valve will send pressure to all the cylinders at the same time.
The cylinders with no load on them will move out to the end of there travel first and the cylinders with load will then move.

I use ball valves to put in the lines.
If I'm using the rear cylinder then I shut off the ball valves going to the center cylinders.
When I switch to the center cylinders, I open those valves and shut off the ones to the rear cylinders.

Edited by jdcrawler, January 30, 2013 - 10:42 PM.

  • Texas Deere and Horse, KennyP, Michiganmobileman and 1 other said thanks

#21 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,461 Thanks
  • 39,690 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted January 31, 2013 - 05:02 AM

I'm learning something here. Ray, thanks for the suggestion about the double pulleys, that makes a lot of sense. And the ball valves, Will. Good idea there!

Greg, I'm still in awe of that grader!


  • Michiganmobileman said thank you

#22 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

Michiganmobileman

    Old Tractor Addict

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5678
  • 1,235 Thanks
  • 1,842 posts
  • Location: Barryton, Michigan

Posted January 31, 2013 - 07:52 AM

This is exactly why I love this site!   I now have the collective brain of the whole gang assisting me with ideas and suggestions.

 

You guys are great!!!

 

Ray I have no access to a lathe, would gladly take you up on your offer.  Let me know if you do find a double pulley around.  If not I will see what I can come up with and then figure the best way to get it to you!

 

Are there special ball valves to use for hydraulics?  I figured I would just use one cylinder at a time, disconnecting when needed, but adding valves sure sounds a lot easier.

 

Thanks a bunch to all! 



#23 jdcrawler OFFLINE  

jdcrawler

    tinkerer

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1639
  • 3,173 Thanks
  • 1,724 posts
  • Location: Madison, Indiana

Posted January 31, 2013 - 09:32 AM

This is exactly why I love this site!   I now have the collective brain of the whole gang assisting me with ideas and suggestions.

 

You guys are great!!!

 

Ray I have no access to a lathe, would gladly take you up on your offer.  Let me know if you do find a double pulley around.  If not I will see what I can come up with and then figure the best way to get it to you!

 

Are there special ball valves to use for hydraulics?  I figured I would just use one cylinder at a time, disconnecting when needed, but adding valves sure sounds a lot easier.

 

Thanks a bunch to all! 

The regular brass ball valves that you can get at places like Home Depot are strong enough for the amount of pressure that a power steering pump puts out.

I don't know if they carry steel ball valves or not but if they do, get those.

 

I have an old pulley that I think will work for you.   It is 5-3/4 outside diameter.

 

DCP_0002-4.jpg

 

DCP_0001-12.jpg


Edited by jdcrawler, January 31, 2013 - 09:41 AM.

  • Michiganmobileman and twostep have said thanks

#24 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

Michiganmobileman

    Old Tractor Addict

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5678
  • 1,235 Thanks
  • 1,842 posts
  • Location: Barryton, Michigan

Posted January 31, 2013 - 10:00 AM

Thanks Ray!

That pulley should work great, current drive pulley is a 6inch but the groove is larger and a 1/2 inch belt sets down inside it a bit.  5.75 should be fine.

PM received and replied to.  As I have access to several plumbing wholesalers through my business I will see what they have in a steel ball valve.  






Top