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Atv Winch On Utility Trailer (long, Cant Cheat Via Looking At Pix)


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#1 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 01:22 AM

I just completed this mod today to my utility trailer that I built from scratch a couple years ago; First let me say I won't ever build a trailer from scratch again with the major PITA I went thru to get a license and title for it here in Illinois... story for another day on that topic.  

 

Anyway my trailer is 6-1/2X13' overall but 11-1/2' long "usable" bed, the last 18" is dovetailed...

I decided I wanted some form of winch on it as my buddy's car hauler had one (manual; PITA trying to get a dead car up by hand but certainly better than nothing)  

My trailer isn't that big as my buddy's was, no car hauling  to be done on mine  just haul my Woods ZTR on it, mostly

but occasionally I gotta go pick up a dead machine.  I was watching the auctions and garage sales for something in the 1500-3000# range as this isn't an everyday use thing;so I didnt want to spend alot to add this.

 

My son bought me a 2000# ATV Superwinch for Fathers Day a couple years ago, and I just now got around to putting it on; I just got a new job and I gotta haul my toolbox (54" Matco top and bottom) to the new job  there ain't gonna be no "just push it up the ramp" without help; so as good of a time as any, to finally do this.
On the way home from a Tractor show in 2011. I saw a garage sale and  stopped, they had a black plastic truck bed toolbox (not over rail type just a big cube basically)  When they said $5 I couldnt get my money out fast enough; but it is way too big for a tongue box at least on this trailer; for what I paid, it was worth a try.  
At another garage sale this past summer I picked up an old Craftsman hand carry toolbox (one of the larger ones at 24" long I think the "standard" one was 18-19" long. You know the ones, they sold millions of em in the 70s/80s. real expensive, as it cost me a whole $2.  Good shape, too!  

What I did was weld angle iron cross braces across the tongue (and flush with the top surface of the tongue)  and then intersected those with another 3 pieces of angle iron  with one of those,  directly under where the winch would mount to tie the cross braces together; only 2 bolts hold this winch down. and I put this cross brace directly under where those 2 winch bolts come thru the bottom of the box.  

I had some true  2" thick oak cribbing (pallet/warehouse stacking material) I made a frame out of that I set onto my new angle iron frame and set the toolbox on that; otherwise the cable would come off the spool "below grade" (the wood decking) as the cable is designed to come off the bottom of the spool. then bolted the box, the winch, and the wooden frame "spacer" to my new angle iron framework with grade 8, 5/16" bolts... 2 thru the winch,wood,angle iron, and all; and 4 more in the corners of the toolbox. I then cut a window in the toolbox for the cable to pass thru; I am gonna cut a piece of conveyor belt  and pop rivet it onto the box above the hole I cut in, to serve as a flap to cover the hole to deflect rain and such...

there is enough room to store a few rachet straps  in the box and I can even put the tray in, that these toolboxes came with; my neighbor came up with a different idea, and mechanically there is room for this (then no room for extra tiedowns and couldn't use the toolbox's tray then,  but no biggie)

My original plans were to see how long the battery leads are for this thing and see if I can get a set of the small battery charger type alligator clamps and crimp them on, and just run them to the tow vehicle battery to power the winch when needed. . I don't have a brake box in any of my current vehicles as I did in my old 3/4 ton pickup.  This trailer has brakes (that work!) and I have both  a 7 pin and a 4 pin flat connector on the trailer; 

There is nothing that goes to the center pin of the 7 pin, that one is an "AUX" usually used for charging an on board camper battery off the alternator of the tow vehicle while underway.

Plans are eventually to put a brake box on the Dakota ... but  probably not a brake box on the Jeeps  (95% of the time it'll be towed by the Dakota anyway, I rarely tow with the Jeeps but can if need be) I have mostly towed this trailer without using its brakes, it's borderline as to whether it is rated heavy enough to need brakes or not,  but they were on the axle so why not... when I had that 3/4 ton Dodge even though I did have a brake box on that truck,  it was beastly enough not to need help from the trailer brakes to safely stop  My Cherokee, Wrangler and Dakota have exactly the same rear brake setups as each other, same part numbers and every thing... puny 9 inchers.

i did also put a break a way box on to energize the brakes if I ever lost it off the ball; that IS law, IF you have trailer brakes you have to have a break away box on there also....

 

My neighbor said something about a motorcycle battery inside the toolbox with the winch; I have an old, dead U-1 garden tractor battery laying out there in the garage (kept to turn in as a core, next time I need to buy a new one)  and it fits "perfect" crossways in the toolbox and I can close the lid like the toolbox was made for it.  no biggie to MIG weld  a couple of eyelets in there, so I can bungee the battery down within the box... ;

 

The questions are related to current draw and how many "pulls" I may get, with each power option;

1) Would I be able to transfer enough current thru that center pin of the  7-way trailer connector to power the winch directly thru that by itself,  without an aux battery and without something melting down? 

2) How many pulls would I get out of a GT battery?

I know there are different "strengths" and price points of them, and I know that  these are not meant for deep cycle service; but that would allow for much shorter leads from the winch;  which would reduce voltage drop due to length of power cables vs the alligator clip arrangement  to the tow vehicle battery;  and I could hook up that 7th pin on the plug so it charges while driving/ and it would provide a little boost thru that tow light plug.... IF I tow the trailer with something with a 7 wire that has a live center pin... otherwise I would be running strictly off the battery or the alligator clips to the front of what ever I tow the trailer with... I figure if I could get 2 maybe 3 pulls from it between charges that would be sufficient. (if I don't hook it up to charge from the tow vehicle thru the 7 pin, that is)

 

I have never seen a GT battery with more than a 2 year warranty anyways they aren't like car batteries, in that respect...... I have a few electric start mowers and such that I could rob a battery from, for those times I would need it, instead of buying one just for that application just to sit 98% of the time and have it go bad from sitting; this time of year I'd be doing my ZTR battery a "favor" by using it rather than having it just sit til Spring..... if I use this winch a dozen times a year, that's more than I thought I would.

 

Any other thoughts about this setup? Even if it goes beyond my questions, all is appreciated.


Edited by dodge trucker, January 17, 2013 - 01:24 AM.

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#2 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 01:26 AM

I kind of ducked around this one but how many amps would I reasonably expect this winch to draw? It is a Superwinch  model LT 2000.



#3 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 02:39 AM

I have the HF 3000 lb w/remote. I have it set up to operate my 'Dump Trailer'. The Ford LGT 165 I hook it to has an automotive battery with a 20 amp (automotive) circuit breaker inline. I have not tripped the CB as yet. So I don't think it draws too many amps. I haven't tried a GT battery with this winch, so can't say how many pulls you may get.



#4 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 06:58 AM

If you list your vehicles with years I should be able to check what the factory wiring , is supposed to be then maybe it would help you decide what route to go . My 2001 GMC have factory tow package and it has a seperate fuse going to the trailer plug to charge the trailer battery . We have used it to recharge the battery when we were at a campground that didn't have electric and ran the trailer battery low , Al

#5 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 09:16 AM

The lenght of the the wires will reduce the voltage to the winch as it pulls. If the winch is working hard, the reduced voltage will slow it and heat it and may damage it. It sounds like you are not going to work it hard but, I'd have the battery in the box and a lock on the box.

 

Nice description of your project. How about some pics?


Edited by boyscout862, January 17, 2013 - 09:17 AM.

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#6 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 10:27 AM

If you list your vehicles with years I should be able to check what the factory wiring , is supposed to be then maybe it would help you decide what route to go . My 2001 GMC have factory tow package and it has a seperate fuse going to the trailer plug to charge the trailer battery . We have used it to recharge the battery when we were at a campground that didn't have electric and ran the trailer battery low , Al

mine are all too old for the factory trailer brake plug  i'd have to wire anything I have the "old way; (NOT a big deal at all) My Dakota's a 93,  my Cherokee (XJ) and my Wrangler are both 97s.  I did this on my last truck (83 Dodge 3/4 ton)   I prefer older vehicles!!!

All 12VDC systems run "around" 14V charging system voltage, so IDK what the particular tow vehicle might have to do with it; whether there are factory connections for a brake box or not, doesn't change that.  Running a wire to charge a battery mounted on the tongue to charge the battery doesn't bother me, but running the winch thru the trailer light connector does a bit;  if the wires heat up and insulation melts: the battery leads on the winch look to be about 8 gauge and I have never seen that heavy a wire able to be used on any trailer plug; I have used 10 ga which isn't "much" thinner but is it too much for the draw that I will be seeing?

I guess it can't draw too much as this winch is designed to be used on an ATV and powered by its battery;  and yeah it did come with a circuit breaker though I never looked to see how many amps it is rated at.... so a GT battery should be plenty I'd guess;
Like any other 12V wet cell battery there are different price points and different cranking amp and reserve capacity ratings of batteries teh same physical size I try to get the "stronger" (more expensive) versions if they are in stock when I need another battery...

 

like I said, I dont think I am gonna buy a battery just for this application regardless, just use one from one of my current pieces of equipment when needed.  Sitting too long between uses is the worst thing for a battery  2nd worst is deep-cycling a battery that isnt meant for it;  and if I buy a battery just for this  it will be subjected to both problems. 

That, and the fact that i will lose storage space for my rachet straps etc in the box that i now have to hunt for when needed, are reasons I am not sure I want to put a dedicated battery in with this setup. though if I get lucky and find that Interstate has a "blem" in the size I need, it may well be cheap enough that I can do so and not feel bad about buying it its own battery. If I ran a shop or something where I'd be using this more regularly, I'd not be questioning the value of putting its own battery on this trailer.

 

Pictures are doubtful; I can weld, I can fabricate, I am good at fixing mechanical things but I ain't no good with computers.  

 

I built this trailer 2 years ago,  I did get pix of the trailer up on MTF  (can never remember how to post, it's different among the various websites I frequent) there is a thread on it over there in the "trailer" heading, which isn't a terribly active one there; but if you want to look over there and have something to search for, my username there is the same as here;  but I used to go by "Don B"  before dictator admin Mark 777 and I got into a PM fight, and I got banned;  (nevermind; I ain't opening that can of worms I know many here have had the same thing happen to them over there for various reasons; especially that round of fireworks this past summer) I figured out their setup just before all this happened and havent tried to post pix there since I rejoined.


Edited by dodge trucker, January 17, 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#7 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 10:34 AM

The trailer does have brakes but I have it set up with both a 7 blade plug and a typical flat 4,  so I am not screwed if I pull it with something that does not have a 7 blade RV plug; when using a flat 4, I am not screwed regarding having working trailer lights. But when I have to use the flat 4 there will be no "help" from the tow vehicle charging system,

Combine that, with the fact that this winch setup won't be used while going down the road, that was why my 1st thought was just alligator clips on the winch power leads and just clip them to the tow vehicle battery when I go to use it..... and roll them up and put in the storage box on the trailer in between.



#8 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2013 - 11:12 AM

you want pix? Go to MTF in the trailer heading to "let's try this picture thing again"  (title of thread) started 2/19/11. there are currently 20 pages of content in the "Trailers" heading  this thread is currently about 1/2 way down, on page 9.



#9 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 01:52 AM

well it's done for now  I robbed the battery from my Woods zero turn and mounted it in the box for now; not like I am mowing this time of year anyways   I may run a charging wire from the trailer connector to the battery, not sure yet;  that'll get me thru moving my toolbox to my new job; I have a 54" long matco top and bottom chest... (we will take the top off and set it onto the trailer seperate then winch the bottom section up the ramp gate) they aren't bolted together, so with the height, Im afraid the top will  "topple"  if I leave it on the chest for its 40 mile ride



#10 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 07:56 AM

Good Luck with the move and the new job.


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#11 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 10:10 AM

yeah I got a job I couldnt pass up;  long hard search, and long hard climb out of a hole involving short term temp jobs and those that think that pay I made 20 years ago is a gold mine today..(not).. hopefully this job can last me the next 20 years..

but my mortgage, insurance, and such sure arent as cheap as they were then...

along with too many companies that seemingly can't spend the time no more to hire their own- referring me to temp services and telling me I gotta apply to the online company site; I was ready to punch someone from being so tired of hearing that BS

I had a good job til getting hurt in 07, and ultimately lost that good job due to something called FMLA, because the Dr had to play games with trivial restrictions where they wouldn't let me return unless he lifted the restriction.... which was simply to take it easy for a few weeks til my endurance came back but the Company said that it was too much of a restriction to let me return before FMLA timed out  that's enough on that topic now, I may tell how I got hurt and such in another topic heading later  but it wasn't an on the job injury... happened right in my own front yard.


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#12 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 11:01 AM

Good Luck. Do your best and hopefully it will be a good place to work.

 

These days the "managers" are trying to follow the model of screw the workers and cut corners. This runs right up the ladder at many of our biggest businesses. The smarter bosses understand that loyalty is a two way street and that he or she must earn it. Loyal and reasonably treated workers will usually out produce at higher quality. If they aren't, then there are bad apples that need to be weeded out.

 

I was laid off 19 months ago. At 61 most places won't even consider highering me. I've only had two interviews. One place wanted seven days a week work but only 4.5 days salary. The other, a construction job, wanted me to be a contract employee( no Workers Comp, no Unemployment, pay 17% social security). Plus I would have had to take liability for their design. I didn't get an offer. I'm still looking but don't have much hope. September I'll start Social Security, might as well, I've paid in for 45 years.

 

My advice is; the regular job keeps you alive, what you do with your off time is what gets you ahead.


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#13 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 08:17 PM

I just came off of SS at 45 (disability not retirement) and had trouble finding work to pay even what SS did let alone what my last job I had at the time I was hurt did or the job I left in 2005 to take that job, even did..

OK enough; people talk about thread jack all the time; I have muddied my own thread here bad enough.... I don't mind talking about how  I got here, how I lost that good job (it wasn't the economy) and the struggle to get back to normal (which is due to the economy or so the experts say I still think it has somethiong to do with being a 45 yo broken toy) but not any more in this thread...

 

The way all 4 wires come out of the control pendant I had to leave them all that length I was gonna either cut the battery leads down for this on board battery idea or else lengthen them for the alligator clip to tow vehicle battery idea   either way I am limited as to how far I can be from the winch....
and I do already have a charging wire off the trailer 7 blade I mis remembered what the 7th pin (middle) was for;

I looked at a 7-blade wiring diagram today and the middle one is for backup lights.... on a trailer? cmon now! Never seen backup lights on a trailer, ever.  one of the "outside six" blades is the 12V charge;  once I saw that,  I remembered running a wire all the way from the battery to the truck side trailer connector on my old 3/4 ton truck for the charge function to feed the battery (small sealed one) that is part of the electric brake break a way box.... so if I T'd into that wire on the trailer side there would be my charge/maintenance wire to the on board battery; 

I know that a self resetting circuit breaker came with the winch... I never looked at the rating of that breaker til I went to wire everything up; it is a 50A breaker.  I may be wrong, but I don't see the spade connectors contained within a trailer light connector handling that kind of current; and as  the "small battery charger" sized alligator clips go, the small battery chargers that use that size alligators usually only charge like 10 amps the chargers that are meant to jump a vehicle are alot beefier; so I can only see the ones I bought heating up and not transmitting enough current espeecially considering that they would have to be the length of the truck and tongue   and the length of the leads themselves means "voltage drop"  in and of itself; 

so all that mess said, the way I least wanted to wire this winch seems to actually make the most sense... 

it aint that big of a deal I guess to borrow the battery out of my mower when I need to use the trailer and the winch too...

I will TRY to get some pix of my setup up here but dont hold me to it.... (again computer dummy behind this keyboard) 

 

Along those lines, I told you where to find one of the threads on my trailer build; if someone wanted to link that thread here, it wouldn't bother me a bit!  (hint hint)


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#14 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 08:23 PM

1 other thing; I went to farm and Fleet today and was looking at the winches; they have this exact same model in 2 stacks on the shelf side by side;  like I said exact same winch same model (LT 2000)  one stack is $109, the one right next to those is "on sale" for$69, (reg price $99, but been on sale forever)  the difference??? New vs old packaging; they changed the box!!! You buy the  $109 version you pay for the new design on the box-- which gets thrown away anyhow!!!   Go figure

They had a 3000 lb Superwinch 2 shelves down that "split the difference" between these 2  2K capacity winches pricewise, I believe those were $89.  for those looking to do something similar;   and they have a flip chart "buyers guide" by the winches and list neither the new 2K the old-box 2K, or this particular 3K winch in the buyers guide... weird.


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#15 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 09:42 PM

I hope that your injury has healed and that you are pain free.


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