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K181 Kohler, No Spark-- Help Please

k181

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#16 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 06:33 PM

This a new engine that has not been in a tractor before. It has a plate with a push button that is connected to the 12v battery and the starter for starting the engine. On the same plate, we have the toggle on/off switch (no key) that has the 4 terminals on the back as described. We do not currently have 12v connected to the toggle on/off switch with the 4 terminals. So, no we do not currently have 12v from the battery to the positive terminal on the coil.
 
So I think the big question is, which terminal on the toggle off/on switch do we connect to the positive terminal on the 12v battery so we have 12v at the coil? 
 
 
 
wrote before:
hmmm. this is a bit confusing not being able to see pictures of what you have.
 
So you have this new engine out of the tractor? Are you using the tractors ignition key switch?
 
And if you are using the switch were is it getting 12 volts from to crank the starter?
 
If there is a wire going to the positive of the coil from your switch, do you have 12volts there when the switch is turned on?


#17 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 06:48 PM

On these engines with a coil you are getting the voltage to create a spark from the battery. If it was a magneto then it would generate the voltage for the spark.

 

I am not sure what it is you have for a switch there?

 

To make things easier on yourself. I would not use that switch yet. I would disconnect the wire from that switch going to the coil positive,

Then I would run a wire with a switch off the battery to at least see if I was getting spark and if the engine would run.

 

With out tracing things out and seeing 1st hand what that switch is and how someone wired it. I myself wouldn't chance using it. I would hate for you to put 12 volts to the wrong spot on that switch and chance you frying your alternator!



#18 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 06:49 PM

So, we may be missing a wire that goes from the positive terminal on the battery to the off/on switch?? The back of our off/on switch has 4 mini terminals. The bottom 2 terminals are jumped together. 1 of the top terminals connects to the positive side of the coil. The other top terminal connects to the regulator (this is also where the 2 wires from the stator connect to the electrical system).
 
Does this seem correct to you?
 
The big question is, which terminal on the off/on switch do we connect to the positive terminal on the battery? 
 

My guess would be that the 2 jumpered terminals should both have 12v to them. The regulator wire and the primary coil wire should both have 12v when the ignition is on. Try taking all the wires off and checking the switch with an ohm meter. See which terminals have continuity with the switch on and off. The stator in this system is strictly for charging the battery and has nothing to do with ignition.



#19 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 06:54 PM

Is this the same as figure 8-3? I do not see page number, just 8-3 etc.

 

Ed

This a new engine that has not been in a tractor before. It has a plate with a push button that is connected to the 12v battery and the starter for starting the engine. On the same plate, we have the toggle on/off switch (no key) that has the 4 terminals on the back as described. We do not currently have 12v connected to the toggle on/off switch with the 4 terminals. So, no we do not currently have 12v from the battery to the positive terminal on the coil.
 
So I think the big question is, which terminal on the toggle off/on switch do we connect to the positive terminal on the 12v battery so we have 12v at the coil? 
 
 
 
wrote before:
hmmm. this is a bit confusing not being able to see pictures of what you have.
 
So you have this new engine out of the tractor? Are you using the tractors ignition key switch?
 
And if you are using the switch were is it getting 12 volts from to crank the starter?
 
If there is a wire going to the positive of the coil from your switch, do you have 12volts there when the switch is turned on?


#20 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:05 PM

Ok 8-3 is a basic ignition system. if you hook it like this, the engine will have spark and run. There is just no means of charging the battery.

 

Figure 8-16 shows a diagram of a 15 amp alternator charging system. See if the components and wires look the same as yours.



#21 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:16 PM

My guess would be that the 2 jumpered terminals should both have 12v to them. The regulator wire and the primary coil wire should both have 12v when the ignition is on. Try taking all the wires off and checking the switch with an ohm meter. See which terminals have continuity with the switch on and off. The stator in this system is strictly for charging the battery and has nothing to do with ignition.

 

So, there is continuity between the top and bottom on one side and top and bottom on the other side. So if we run 12v from the positive terminal of the batt to one of the bottom terminals on the off/on switch and put the jumper back on between the 2 bottom terminals, we should have the 12v at the coil as well as at the regulator when we put the switch in the on position.

 

Does this seem correct to you? 



#22 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:31 PM

Figure 8-16 appears to be the same as our system minor the solenoid. I do not think we have a solenoid.



#23 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:46 PM

Ooops!   Figure 8-16 appears to be the same as our system MINUS the solenoid. I do not think we have a solenoid.

 

Does this seem correct?

 

Figure 8-16 appears to be the same as our system minor the solenoid. I do not think we have a solenoid.



#24 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:50 PM

So, there is continuity between the top and bottom on one side and top and bottom on the other side. So if we run 12v from the positive terminal of the batt to one of the bottom terminals on the off/on switch and put the jumper back on between the 2 bottom terminals, we should have the 12v at the coil as well as at the regulator when we put the switch in the on position.

 

Does this seem correct to you? 

As long as the regulator is hooked up correctly (like in the print) then If you hook the switch up like you are saying then yes it will work.

This way while the switch is on it will be sending 12 volts to the coil (fro spark) and the regulator will charge the battery while the engine is running. Then when you turn the switch off it will stop the engine.

 

Let us know how it goes. And good luck



#25 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 07:52 PM

Ooops!   Figure 8-16 appears to be the same as our system MINUS the solenoid. I do not think we have a solenoid.

 

Does this seem correct?

It probably is correct if you are just using a large starter button (switch)


  • WNYTractorTinkerer said thank you

#26 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 08:19 PM

It probably is correct if you are just using a large starter button (switch)

If the switch is connected to LARGE wires, 1 from the Battery and the other going to the starter there is no solenoid as the switch is activating the starter.  The other switch is for your Ignition & charging system.  You turn it off and it disconnects (isolates) the battery's 12V+ from the Coil's + terminal and the regulator's 12V+ output.  (If you don't turn those off you will drain & kill the battery)

 

The Negative wire from the coil's other terminal is connected to the point's and the Condensor.  DO NOT GROUND this wire or no spark will ever happen.  The points are the thing that grounds the coil and creates an electromagnetic field on the primary winding there.  When the points open the circuit is opened (hence-  breaker points?) and the charge transfers / excites the coil's secondary winding and the spark is created and life is great!

 

Hope this helps..



#27 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 08:21 PM

As long as the regulator is hooked up correctly (like in the print) then If you hook the switch up like you are saying then yes it will work.

This way while the switch is on it will be sending 12 volts to the coil (fro spark) and the regulator will charge the battery while the engine is running. Then when you turn the switch off it will stop the engine.

 

Let us know how it goes. And good luck

 

Wow! Thanks for ALL the wonderful help!!! We really do appreciate it. So this engine will not run with a dead battery? This might be a different problem as we do not have electricity where I plan on using it. 

 

How difficult is it to switch over to a magneto system? I know how to add a recoil start as I have done this before.



#28 chris m OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 08:31 PM

Unfortunately with this system you do need a charged battery for it to run or run good. And I don't know if your block can be converted to mag or not.

 

But even if you don't have electricity as long as you have a good battery and your charging system is working you will be fine.



#29 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 08:41 PM

Thanks!! Ed



#30 bear15 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2013 - 05:46 PM

Thank you very much. The engine is now working great!!
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