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Gt17

engine dies

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#1 donbuck OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2013 - 01:19 PM

I just aquired this GT17 and it would not run.I now have it running and have locked out the safety swith in the Park position as it dies when I move the lever away from the switch.Now the engine dies as asoon as I activate either of the PTO switches? Where do I start?



#2 Guest_rat88_*

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Posted January 13, 2013 - 01:32 PM

I would go after the seat switch first



#3 Newpaws493 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2013 - 01:38 PM

Welcome to GTtalk,  'just aquired' always seems to come with more Q's than A's, that'll change. I'm pretty sure some guys with clues will stop by to help you along.  Might as well get some :camera: ready, we feed on em. Good luck!



#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2013 - 04:20 PM

Congrats on the new tractor.

The seat switch is a likely problem. I would give all the wiring the once over, looking for burnt, broken or corroded connections. 



#5 Goatboy OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2013 - 10:12 PM

What year is the Gt 17 and what type of ignition is on the engine. 

 

My older S series Ariens have K series Kohler engines and the safety circuits have long since been removed. They have breaker point style ignitions and I dont know how the safety circuits were originally wired, but I think they were only neutral start switches, no seat switches. I have rewired many tractors with both old style and newer electronic ignitions. Breaker points need battery power or at least alternator/generator power to work. Electronic ignitions on small engines usually create their own power.

 

If it has electronic ignition, the safety circuit will most likely ground the coil to stop the engine. If you can find the kill wire coming out of the engine, disconnect it and make sure it isnt touching anything and engine should run. Touch that wire to ground and engine will die. Usually if you disconnect any and all wires coming out from under the cowling, the engine should run.  Don't disconnect the starter wires or you wont get it to turn over. This applies to electronic ignitions.

 

If your engine has old school beaker point and automotive round style coil, then it's a different story. To kill these engines, power is removed from the coil at the positive terminal.

 

Start by identifying your tactor model and serial # on the tag on the front left frame rail. Make sure you have a muti meter with continuity test feature. This will help to test your safety switches when we find the electrical diagram for your specific tractor.

 

If you think it's the seat switch, find the switch, disconnect the wires, use continuity tester to determine wether switch is normally open or closed by actuaing it by hand with tester connected, then either jump wires or leave wires disconnected to simulate desired state.

 

Hope this helps


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#6 donbuck OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2013 - 12:52 PM

Thanks for the input. I washed everything to romove many years of dirt,grease etc. and am now replacing all of the hydraulic lines as most of them are shot.The manual calls for 10/30 motor oil in the hydroststic transmission/rear PTO,when removing the filter and lines I find it is filled with red hydraulic fluid? I call Ariens to question them and was told to put motor oil back in it. Any comments?

Unfortunately I cant get back to the PTO analysis until I replace the leaking hydraulics,I do think I am gaining groung a little at a time but this will be a learning experience.Thanks.



#7 Goatboy OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 07:32 AM

I use a good quality 10w30 in the hydrostatic transmission also. My s-16 has the original decal under the hood that says to do so, so I always have. Never had any problems. Mine leaks a bit so I always make sure it's topped up. I wouldn't wory too much about the red oil in it, they are usually pretty tolerant, just put 10w30 in it from here on. You might want to try to flush it by filling it with cheaper 10w30, run it till it's warm, then drain it again.

 

I was looking at an electrical diagram for a GT tractor and it apears to have some kind of safety module that the PTO's are wired through. I dont have a GT though my S-16 is mechanically almost identical, the electrical is much more simplified.If it turns out to be the problem and you dont want to pay for a new one, I would suggest removing the safety module altogether and just running the switches straight to ignition power or possibly through a relay to reduce current in the ignition switch. Of course this would alter the manufacturers original design and essentially make the tractor more DANGEROUS. I have many tractors with safety devices altered and some that really never had any. I don't know how comfortable you are with electrical, but I can try to talk you through it If you need help.



#8 shorty OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2013 - 08:07 AM

I read somewhere that using hydraulic oil instead of the typical 10-30 in a hydro will cause foaming and it won't work right. I agree that  draining and possibly flushing should take care of any issues. Disconnecting the seat circuit is the easiest way to trouble shoot the electrical. One thing about all the new safety things, we are no longer required to have common sense to use our tractors. I grew up using an S-14 with no working safety features. It taught us to drive with commonsense and responsibility at a young age. But I have second thoughts about teaching my son this way. 



#9 donbuck ONLINE  

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Posted January 22, 2013 - 10:41 AM

Thanks to all who responded.All oils have been replaced with the factory recommended engine oil and weights.New hydraulic lines and filter have been put on the rear PTO and I have the engine running again.The initial starting problem was the safety switch at the park/start position(I have temporarily removed that from the loop).After pressure washing and not being able to restart,the problem was the points.The tractor is a 1980 and has a 17hp Kohler engine.I have found all of the manuals online and now have a very thick binder full of good information.There are no rear attatchments and no mower,I wanted it mostly for the front end loader,plus I thought it would be fun to have?The seat safety switch has also been bipassed as I can start it off the seat.I can turn the rear PTO shaft with my hand but not the front (coming out of the engine) and not as yet sure how that operates the pump and belts for the front end loader.I have never owned or even driven a tractor and am hoping I can get this figured out.Glad to have found your site and thanks for the responses.    



#10 shorty OFFLINE  

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Posted January 22, 2013 - 04:38 PM

Sounds like you are getting somewhere with it now. That loader is a would be neat to have. From what I found in the manuals, it should be belt driven off the front pto. From the clutch on the engine there should be a double belt strait down to the front and mid pto. With a pulley on the front pto to the pump. I haven't seen the pump setup myself, just going off the diagrams.



#11 Goatboy ONLINE  

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Posted January 23, 2013 - 08:21 PM

You didn't mention it has a loader!   :rocker2:  You're one lucky guy. Glad to hear it's running. Does it still die when you engage the pto now that the seat switch is bypassed? That along with the fact you cant turn the front pto by hand sounds to me like the clutch or front pto shaft might be seized. I believe the pump is run off the front pto. Is the loader installed on the tractor and if so, can you get it to operate? With the engine off and no power to the pto clutch you shold be able to spin the pulley on the front axle pivot by hand without turning the engine. If you cant, remove the belts and see what is seized. I think there is a brake mechanism for the clutch as well that might need adjusting. That could be stopping you from turning it. Check your manual, it should all be in there.

 

You should read at least the operators manual before embarking on your maiden voyage, especially if your not familiar with tractors. Man, you dont know what you're missing. Tractors are way overrated. You wont like it. Don't even try it. Just ship it to me, I will take it off your hands for you and save you all the misery. :D


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#12 shorty OFFLINE  

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Posted January 23, 2013 - 09:18 PM

You didn't mention it has a loader!   :rocker2:  You're one lucky guy.  Tractors are way overrated. You wont like it. Don't even try it. Just ship it to me, I will take it off your hands for you and save you all the misery. :D

 

  :bigrofl:  :bigrofl:  :bigrofl: So I am not the only one green with envy. We really need some pics to drool over to complete the agony of not having one.






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