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58' Bolens Versa-matic Ignition Trouble (kohler K161)


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#76 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 27, 2013 - 03:44 PM

You may have found it ... I know i had a simmlar issue with a 10 amp charging system (was only putting out 4-5 amps )on a 80's briggs twin i replaced EVERY thing electricly ... it turned out the flywheel magnets were dead Briggs and stratton is very brefe when they talk about "Magnetc Flux" in any repair manuals so i contact them and they say it something else .... from what i understand once they are "Dead" they are dead ... if you have another flywheel try it ...

I wish swapping out the flywheel was an option, but

This style used a rotor attached to the crankshaft & there are no magnets on the flywheel...



#77 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 28, 2013 - 09:41 AM

So it appears the Part number for the rotor is 231631 and the New part number is 231631-S As my luck would have it, it appears to be NLA from Kohler :wallbanging:

 

Looks like I'll have to do some searching......

 

Can anyone tell me if all the magnets are all Supposed to be strong or are the other 2 Dummy Magnets?



#78 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted March 28, 2013 - 12:33 PM

So it appears the Part number for the rotor is 231631 and the New part number is 231631-S As my luck would have it, it appears to be NLA from Kohler :wallbanging:

 

Looks like I'll have to do some searching......

 

Can anyone tell me if all the magnets are all Supposed to be strong or are the other 2 Dummy Magnets?

 

I am trying to think this through.

 

Are the magnets spaced evenly around the rotor?

 

The magnets would alternate poles:  North - South - North - South but I don't know why there would be a need for 4 magnets.

 

The spark is only generated when the points open, and that is controlled by the ignition cam which is turning at 1/2 of the crank revolutions.  .....So, I don't understand why there would be a need for four magnets. 

 

The ignition timing is controlled by the point gap and the centrifugal timing-advance built into the camshaft, so I don't think two extra magnets would be needed to compensate for ignition advance.

 

B&S has had info about re-magnetizing their flywheels in some of their manuals, but I don't see anything about that for Kohler.

 

Kohler stopped using any rotor-type magnetos as of 1970 production for their K-series engines.



#79 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 28, 2013 - 03:12 PM

The 4 magnets are spaced evenly.....

I would say atleast 2 of them should have a good strong pull right? And with only one being able to pull and hold a screwdriver I have to assume this is the issue, Especially since I replaced everything else already?

 

Its not looking good for a New one.... Everyone has them at $100+ :(



#80 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 05:41 AM

Brian:

 

I have read good things about this company:  http://magneto-repair.com/

 

Perhaps a phone call to them will be worthwhile to find out if they can re-magnetize your rotor.

 

Are there any magneto repair shops in the Buffalo area?


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#81 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 06:38 PM

Here's a picture of the Rotor:

 

 

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#82 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted April 15, 2013 - 04:41 PM

After Months of ongoing aggravation I decided I should just get the Replacement Magneto and be done with it.

 

Anyone have the Contact info for marks Magnetos?

 

Does he have a website?



#83 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted April 16, 2013 - 04:42 PM

Is he in CT? If so, try this;

http://www.ironmemor...magneto-service



#84 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2013 - 08:23 AM

Brian, Did you ever get this fixed? I helped a buddy with a Techumseh this past week and it put me in mind of this. After new points, condenser, and a coil on the laminations there was still no spark. We put another mag plate on with the same new coil and fixed it. The laminations were riveted to the aluminum plate and appeared to be losing ground through the contact between the steel and aluminum. I'm not sure how the laminations are attached to the plate on your engine but this could be a possibility.



#85 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2013 - 06:06 PM

Haven't had much time to work on the tractors but I think I did find the problem.

The Tecumseh aftermarket coil must not have enough windings to produce a strong enough spark to run the engine.

 

I then decided to pull the magneto off the Ride-a-Matic to see what would happen and the engine did run great for about 10 minutes until it heated up and then lost spark just like the other one :wallbanging: ( Turns out the ride-a-matic coil is bad as well)

 

I decided to bypass the magneto and temporarily convert to a 12vt Bolens coil with battery to see if it would run after the tractor would die out on the magneto.... Sure enough the tractor ran great and was showing good spark on the battery ignition and when I went back to magneto ignition it wasn't getting any spark after the mag heated up.

 

Looks like I need to get 2 Mags.

Does this mark's magnetos have an e-mail? How does he accept payments?



#86 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 23, 2013 - 09:26 AM

Ordered two of the Coils this morning from Marks.

Cant wait to get both the ride-a-matic and the Versa-Matic up and running again!



#87 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2013 - 11:19 AM

It will be interesting to see if they fix it. It's hard to believe the Techumseh coil can't fire it. What were the primary and secondary resistances of that coil?



#88 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 24, 2013 - 08:59 PM

It will be interesting to see if they fix it. It's hard to believe the Techumseh coil can't fire it. What were the primary and secondary resistances of that coil?

 

I didnt check...

I'm thinking the guys who made successful conversions with the tecumseh coils may have had these type of systems below where the kohler coil looks to be the same as the replacement I used

 

 

 

K-161Hobie034.jpg

 

 

The one used on my engine is about double the size of the replacement which I would assume has more windings for a stronger spark.

 

Bendixcoil2.jpg



#89 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 26, 2013 - 08:22 AM

Look what came in yesterday!!

 

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#90 8tyman8 OFFLINE  

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Posted May 26, 2013 - 08:26 AM

:watch_over_fence:






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