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58' Bolens Versa-matic Ignition Trouble (kohler K161)


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#61 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2013 - 09:32 AM

The ignition cam can be installed on the camshaft in two positions, but only one is the correct way. ....If you haven't separated the two parts, nothing will have changed.

 

The "triangle" on your camshaft gear should point at the mark on the ignition cam (which appears to be a "dimple" or punch mark in your photos). 

 

With the two cams mounted on the rod, can you rotate the ignition cam to see if the weights move freely, and the cam returns to its relaxed position?

 

As a general rule of thumb when fitting new piston rings, the end gap should be 003" per inch of cylinder bore.  ...Example: for a 3" bore, the ring end gap should be close to .009".   ......If the ring gaps on your existing rings are .015" or less, I would not bother changing them.

 

I don't see any sign of a compression release on your camshaft. 

 

....On engines that have  compression release, exhaust valve clearance can be set wrong if the tappet is raised by the ACR.  .....To avoid that, I would always adjust exhaust valve clearance when the intake valve is fully raised, and set intake valve clearance when the exhaust valve is fully raised. ....This insures that the tappet for the valve being clearanced is riding on the base circle of the cam.

 

 

The little piece on the cam fell out when I pulled the rod out so I put it back in....

The weights appear to be working properly when I turn the cam by hand and let go the weights go back to the relaxed position.

I have no way of determining if the spring was out of place prior to removal because it fell out as soon as the pin was out....

 

She's definitely going to need new rings as the gap exceeds the limit. The Bore is in good condition (No warping)

I got a gasket kit on order as well as a new set of STD size rings.


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#62 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2013 - 06:02 PM

Got the Block cleaned/ Degreased today along with the piston and connecting rod.

Inspected the governor assembly and it is working fine... So we can also rule that out as a potential problem.

 

 

Going to hone the cylinder tomorrow and now its just a waiting game for the gasket set and rings to come in :D



#63 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2013 - 07:07 PM

Had some more setbacks today. Got the gasket set and rings in today and went to grab the camera... Broken Lens! :mad2:

I also ended up snapping the oil ring while trying to install it :shoot2: :wallbanging:

 

And to make things better my computer decided to die :bs: :smashing_pc:

 

So far 2013 has not been kind to me :ah_shoot:



#64 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2013 - 05:53 PM

Update:

 

The Good News:

 

Finally got the engine up and running

 

The Bad news:

 

Engine stopped running after about 2 minutes and now has no spark..

Since those wires behind the flywheel are pretty close to the wheel I figured one of them got nicked and caused the spark to stop, pulled the flywheel and everything checks out OK. :wtf: 

 

Checked the points and everything looks good as well.

 

Seems like every time I take one step forward I take 3 back with this engine.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this ignition problem?



#65 8tyman8 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2013 - 06:04 PM

i think its shorting to ground Remove the spark plug and set the wire out of the way (on a block of wood) get a spray bottle with water and spray all the ignition leads turn off all the lights and pull it over a few time and look if the spark plug lead is jumping to ground i mentioned it before ... My briggs twin had a nicked lead and it would run rough once and a while and would not start the greatest i slid some srink tube over and worked as good as new .. if i were to repair it again i would used Dual Wall shrink tube just my 2 cents



#66 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2013 - 07:16 PM

Some random thoughts..........

 

When you say it looks good is that just a visual or with an ohm meter? Did you have to lengthen the primary wire? Connection?  Are the points moving? Point plunger moving free in the block? Run a business card or fresh bill through the points and check for residue. I haven't heard good things about new condensers, maybe try another.

 

How much did the compression improve?



#67 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted February 04, 2013 - 11:24 AM

Some random thoughts..........

 

When you say it looks good is that just a visual or with an ohm meter? Did you have to lengthen the primary wire? Connection?  Are the points moving? Point plunger moving free in the block? Run a business card or fresh bill through the points and check for residue. I haven't heard good things about new condensers, maybe try another.

 

How much did the compression improve?

 

 

Did not check with an ohm meter.

I did lengthen the primary wire that leads to the condenser but I soldered it up to make sure I had a good connection.

 

-The engine just randomly stopped without any warning. You would think if it were a ground/ connection issue you would start to hear the engine act up or run uneven.

 

-Points are clean and moving as they should.

 

-The new condenser is a bit shorter than the original. I put the old condenser back on and still got no spark.



#68 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted February 04, 2013 - 11:27 AM

I'd say drag out the meter. Does it have any kind of a kill switch that could be shorting out?



#69 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted February 04, 2013 - 04:47 PM

Sounds like your new coil is kaput.

 

Do you have an old external Delco coil laying around?I know it won't be original but it will get you up and running.You can wire it up fairly easy.Hot wire to the coil from the battery and the other lead going to the points.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Doh! Versa-Matic has no battery or charging system.My brain is refusing to work correctly today. :rolling:


Edited by EricFromPa, February 04, 2013 - 04:51 PM.


#70 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted February 04, 2013 - 07:06 PM

Let's go down a different path ---

 

Does your tractor have the wire going up the handles to the "stop" button?   .....Is it still connected?

 

 .....If yes, sometimes the fiber insulator around the machine screw holding the button on will wear/break grounding the ignition unintenionally.

 

.....It is also possible the wire is grounding at one of the clips holding it to the handle.

 

If the wire is not connected at the points, then obviously that is not where your problem lies.


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#71 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted February 04, 2013 - 07:19 PM

It still has the factory kill switch.

I Will double check the connections or bypass it for the time being to see if that may be the problem.



#72 antiquetractors OFFLINE  

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Posted February 21, 2013 - 03:55 PM

Do you remember the topic about marks magnetos? He sells this magneto brand new. I just ordered another one today.






Well as some of you know the Versa-Matic quit running on me a couple weeks ago and I'm now getting around to figuring out why.
I have it ruled down to an ignition issue.
I'm getting a nice blue spark but its not sparking like it should. When I give the engine a pull sometimes it sparks 2-3 times and other times I get 1 spark or nothing.
I was talking with Bruce through PM and he mentioned It may be a faulty condenser.
I cleaned and gapped the points and there was no change.
 
I went ahead and ordered a new set of points and condenser that should be here Friday.
After pulling the flywheel It seems I have another problem as the Bendix magneto housing is cracked!
I'm still getting a blue spark though so if it turns out to be the condenser do you think I could get away with putting some epoxy in the cracks to seal it up?
 
If I need a magneto does anyone know where to get one? They are NLA from Kohler but I have heard from someone on here that a guy is making new ones???
 
 
 
Since I have everything apart I'm taking the time to clean the carbon off the head and lap the valves.



#73 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted March 27, 2013 - 08:24 AM

Update:

 

Still cant get it to run :(

I've pretty much replaced just about everything in the ignition system, but now am looking at the rotor with the magnets on it....

The tractor gets intermittent spark, and seems to have trouble sparking under compression which indicates weak spark.

One of the magnets is pretty strong but the other is weak, My question for you kohler guys is are both magnets supposed to have a strong pull or is one a "Dummy" for balance? If they are both supposed to be strong I guess this is my problem....



#74 8tyman8 OFFLINE  

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Posted March 27, 2013 - 02:59 PM

Update:

 

Still cant get it to run :(

I've pretty much replaced just about everything in the ignition system, but now am looking at the rotor with the magnets on it....

The tractor gets intermittent spark, and seems to have trouble sparking under compression which indicates weak spark.

One of the magnets is pretty strong but the other is weak, My question for you kohler guys is are both magnets supposed to have a strong pull or is one a "Dummy" for balance? If they are both supposed to be strong I guess this is my problem....

You may have found it ... I know i had a simmlar issue with a 10 amp charging system (was only putting out 4-5 amps )on a 80's briggs twin i replaced EVERY thing electricly ... it turned out the flywheel magnets were dead Briggs and stratton is very brefe when they talk about "Magnetc Flux" in any repair manuals so i contact them and they say it something else .... from what i understand once they are "Dead" they are dead ... if you have another flywheel try it ...



#75 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted March 27, 2013 - 03:43 PM

Went out, pulled the flywheel and rechecked the magnets.... There are 4 of them on to rotor.... One was really strong, one was about medium and the other 2 were quite weak.....

 

This should be fun trying to find one of these :wallbanging:






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