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Amf 1010 Not Turning Over


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#1 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:13 PM

  Hey, Everybody. Got a problem with the AMF 1010. I was blowing snow with it the other day,and the chute rotater handle came loose. I stopped, shut it down and proceeded to bolt it back on. As I was doing it I touched the wrench to a couple live wires(I know, always unhook the battery before performing any mechanical work). Anyways, after that I tried to turn it over and nada,nothing, zero. The lights don't work and the starter won't engage. It has a fully charged battery in it. I thought it might be a fuse but I couldn't find one. What do you guys think?



#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:15 PM

Is this a starter/generator unit or does it have a bendix type starter?
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#3 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:21 PM

Is this a starter/generator unit or does it have a bendix type starter?

 

 

Bendix type. It is a tecumseh HH100.



#4 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:34 PM

Bendix type. It is a tecumseh HH100.
The early HH100's had a S/G unit, that's why I asked... Ok, so it's a later one.

I am assuming you have checked connections at the battery and where the ground wire attaches.

Down in under the dash is a solenoid. On it is two big polls and one small one. The + wire runs from the battery to it.
Connect a wire from the small poll and run it up to the + terminal. The engine should crank over. If not, you more than likely have a bad solenoid or bad connections, if it does, probably bad switch. I'm betting switch as the lights are out too.

Could you determine what wire it was that you shorted out? That may be another clue for us.
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#5 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:41 PM

Check the fuse in the fuse holder. Power for the small wire on the solenoid,

goes through the fuse, to the key switch, to the solenoid.


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#6 FirefyterEmt OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:41 PM

Yea, run a jumper wire from the starter to the battery to make sure that it's not the starter.   I highly doubt that its the starter myself.   If I am correct, there is a fuseable link at the amp gauge, but it's been a while and my tractor has been hand wired for the Chrysler ignition system.

 

You may need to get in there with a test light and see where you lost power. It's a pretty simple system to check out really  If you have a test light, before you start jumping wires, you can also test that terminal at the starter to see if it has power when the key is turned. If not, head to the switch to see if it has power.  I believe the power to feed the switch comes off the amp gauge on the factory set up. 


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#7 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:48 PM

I didn't know about the fuse able link, thanks. Good to know.

Doug, where is the fuse holder? IDT Ryan's had one, but it's an early MF10 with the SG. Never had to fight with the wires on the 12. Yet.
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#8 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 10:12 PM

The diagram I have shoes all the 12volt power for starter solenoid, lights any other 12volt accessory's goes thought the fuse.

Everything except the starter motor heavy wires.

 

20amp fuse, located near the key switch. SSI, ring gear motors


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#9 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 10:24 PM

Check the fuse in the fuse holder. Power for the small wire on the solenoid,

goes through the fuse, to the key switch, to the solenoid.

  Where is the fuse located?

 

 

Edit: Didn't see your other post. I will check the fuse. I really think that is the problem.


Edited by LTD, December 29, 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#10 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 10:27 PM

If it's still there should be behind the dash near the key switch.

Trace the small wire that comes off the starter solenoid, should be near there.


Edited by DH1, December 29, 2012 - 10:28 PM.

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#11 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 10:29 PM

The early HH100's had a S/G unit, that's why I asked... Ok, so it's a later one.

I am assuming you have checked connections at the battery and where the ground wire attaches.

Down in under the dash is a solenoid. On it is two big polls and one small one. The + wire runs from the battery to it.
Connect a wire from the small poll and run it up to the + terminal. The engine should crank over. If not, you more than likely have a bad solenoid or bad connections, if it does, probably bad switch. I'm betting switch as the lights are out too.

Could you determine what wire it was that you shorted out? That may be another clue for us.

  Yes, the first thing I did was check the battery connections and ground. I think I shorted out a wire on the amp gauge.



#12 Joeys446 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 11:00 PM

Hope you get it figured out. I would love to see some pictures of your tractor.



#13 Farmlife OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 07:41 AM

I would bet on the fuse or switch as well...makes sense as it seems to be wiping out everything at once.  Waitin for some pics of that thing in action.....


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#14 LTD OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 08:22 PM

Ok guys, I could not find a fuse anywhere on it. Is it possible it may have been wired out? I will check the switch tomorrow.



#15 WNYTractorTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 08:33 PM

Starting Systems 101:

 

 Please read through the following information and fire back if you need more help..  :wave:

 

**Here's a basic flow chart how to trouble shoot your trouble..

 

Soo-->  The things you can do for Every electrical starting problem are:

First off- Load Test your battery. Replace if it's bad.  Bad battery is S.O.Luck!!  :wallbanging:
 

If it's good- PTO OFF- Tranny in Neutral- Brake pressed or Parking brake set- Sitting in the seat?    Try it..

If still no go- Check / Clean all Main cable connections.. (GROUNDS TOO!!)  Battery & Frame! Retry..

If still no go- With parking brake on and PTO And KEY OFF and Tranny in neutral and NO GAS fumes present as **this will spark!**-> Jump the solenoid's large terminals with pliers or one side of a set of jumper cables to see if it cranks. (this bypasses the solenoid and JUST tests the starter)  If it doesn't crank or at least try to, The starter is bad or locked up (Bendix / gear is stuck out and still engaged in flywheel)  Try turning the crankshaft by hand to ensure it's not seized/locked up also..  If the starter turns & the engine cranks you will need to investigate further..  If not-  Shop for a new starter or repair your present one..  

 

So Read on to investigate further.....

Next- Hook a test light up to the Positive terminal on your battery. Test it to a good ground (negative terminal) to be sure it lights up. Test it to your starter case. Light is good, no light is bad ground somewhere..   (This shouldn't be an issue if you followed above instructions??)  :thumbs:
 

Go to the starter Solenoid. Different solenoids are made but they all perform the same function. They magnetize via a small coil to connect two large/main wire connections. (battery cable directly to the starter..) The small terminals are for the activation coil/electromagnet.  To test and verify your Solenoid is working, test with all safety's on/ neutral/ brake set/ KEY OFF similar to above but instead of hooking the solenoid's main terminals together you will supply 12V+ to the solenoid's activation lug.  (to determine which one it is if there are two small terminals, unplug both wires and test both wires to ground by hooking the test light to the battery's positive terminal.  If it lights up that is the ground wire.  Reattach that ground wire to the solenoid and use your pliers or a hunk of wire to connect the battery side big terminal of the solenoid to the open or unplugged terminal on the solenoid.  The starter should crank away as above if the solenoid is good.  If it doesn't, you gotta go a-solenoid shopping!  WOO HOO!!  Replace it and if the problem STILL isn't resolved (but the engine cranks)..  Read on below..   (I know you are just on the edge of your seat huh???  :smilewink:

 

Soooo..  To continue on if you still have issues:

 

The other (or the single if there is only one) small terminal on the solenoid is the 12V+ Start signal that is ONLY provided when you turn the key to Start if all Safety Interlocks are as they should be with good connections and all connections are clean / made. **Note- Some starting systems MAY have positive power @ the solenoid and the negative side is used for the starting circuit! (Kinda unusual but possible-  Gotta love DC power baby!!)  So if there is always 12V+ present @ that little solenoid terminal instead of a constant ground we were looking for as indicated above you would be scratching your head like crazy!!    :wallbanging:   So your starting system is the same theory but the negative or ground is used for starter activation!!-   Some use a combination of both sides to activate the dang circuit (Cub Cadet's Safety Relays use negative circuitry to enable the positive start activation via those relays?!?!   :wallbanging:)  Post a thread in the appropriate forum for help if you do!!

So... you trouble-shot the solenoid & starter above..  So if it cranks by bypassing the starting circuit you have Ignition Switch, Start circuit or Safety Interlock troubles..  Read on please if you are still awake, breathing and aware...  :beer:
 

Here's the initial steps to test / ring out almost ANY Starting Circuit- 

1) DID you perform the tests above. (if not- shame on you!!)  That determines for sure that the Start Circuit is at fault (Hint-->> did you check the GROUNDS too??)

2) Begin Start Circuit testing @ the ignition switch. Find the (B) or Battery Positive connector on the back of the Ignition switch. As long as the battery is good and the Fuse is intact and the connections are good--> A test light connected to battery Negative (-) or frame (verified by testing to the battery's positive (+) terminal) should light up. If not- Test that wire back to the battery or Solenoid main positive 12V+ where it is hooked up. (**It's possible that--> if the wiring has been worked on it could be connected to the wrong side (starter) of the solenoid..   :wallbanging:

Rewire and try again so have a cup of coffee and re-read all the above!!)    :deadhorse: 

 

 


3) So now you have 12V+ at the IGNITION switch's 'B' (battery) terminal with the key on or off!!

 

Great!  Have a pop!

 

The next step is to set all Safety's and PTO off and turn the key to Start. There is One terminal (usually labeled 'S')  on your Ignition switch which is your start circuit activation wire. It should only test 12V+ with either your meter or test light hooked to ground AND the Key turned to the START position.   If not- the Ignition Switch is wrong or bad. This is true of almost every tractor start system. **Replace it with the correct type as there are many different configurations available even though they come with the same plug / terminal design. (look the same-  BUT ARE DIFFERENT..  **WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MAKE THINGS EASY YOU SAY??)  :wallbanging:    Take your old switch with you and compare to be sure they match. 

4) So if you get 12V+ @ the start terminal WITH THE KEY TURNED TO START NOW)  everything is great up to that point. This is where the Safety Interlocks come into play. This is Very different from tractor to tractor and if you still need help from here you will need to ask in the appropriate forum with the type of tractor and model# and type of engine so somebody can help you with the particular way to check your machine as THEY VARY A LOT. 
       (**Always feel free to post if you don't understand!!)

 

Don't shoot the messenger-->  Just trying to help!trink40.gif


Edited by WNYTractorTinkerer, December 30, 2012 - 08:34 PM.

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