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Bolens 190-01 Tractor Won't Start

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#16 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2013 - 07:16 PM

 Also, just to confirm, for it to turn over, I will need to have the tractor in neutral, brake pressed or parking brake on and PTO off.  

 

No. ....Your Bolens 1000 was not equipped with the safety interlocks which were added on later tractors. 

 

HOWEVER, for safety and to lessen the load on the engine when trying to start it, the PTO should be "OFF", and you should press down on the clutch.  ....Having the transmission in neutral is just another way to prevent the tractor from moving when it is not wanted.

 

If your 1000 is wired correctly as it was originally equipped, pushing the starter button will crank the engine.  ....It will not start unless the key is "ON."

 

I apologize if I am not giving enough information, I am just trying to get my head around what I need to get this working.  I know I am missing the push button start, need a replacement switch and may need a new voltage regulator or solenoid.  Would it be easier to just start fresh with a new replacement solenoid/voltage regulator/push button/switch combo?

 

You have 2 choices:  Either make it like it was originally, or make it like some later models were.

 

If you use the large "Heavy-Duty" pushbutton starting switch, you do not need a solenoid.

 

If you use a small (light-duty) pushbutton switch, you will need a solenoid.

 

If you use an ignition switch with the "off-on-start " positions, you will need a solenoid.  .....This style switch will have 12volts coming to it, and 12v going to a solenoid in the "start" position.  .....This style of switch is used with a round-can ignition coil, and is not suitable for magneto ignition unless it isolates the ignition circuit from battery voltage.

 

The original "off-on" key switch did not use a solenoid.  ....It was not connected to battery voltage!!!

 

Another suggestion:  Work on one part of the wiring circuit at a time to avoid confusion.

 

The voltage regulator has nothing to do with the cranking or starting of the engine.

 

The solenoid and/or push-button has nothing to do with charging the battery.

 

Your engine would never utilize a round-can coil and a magneto, so you have to decide which system you want to go with.

 

Keep in mind that you also need a correct-style solenoid, if you choose to go that route.

 

.


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#17 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2013 - 09:34 PM

Thank you for the advise.  I would like to get the tractor back to the way it was originally wired.  Is the heavy duty push button switch hard to come by?  I think I have a light duty one that I can use, but then I need to add the solenoid back to the mix and then determine whether mine is grounded or ungrounded.  What is the advantage to converting it to a coil system instead of magneto?  What I am getting is that on the magneto system, the magneto setup is totally independent of the other wiring, except that the switch needs to be in the "on" position, while the ignition coil system is all wired together through a 3 position switch, solenoid, voltage regulator.



#18 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted July 30, 2013 - 06:02 PM

Thank you for the advise.  I would like to get the tractor back to the way it was originally wired.  Is the heavy duty push button switch hard to come by?  Member Bolens 1000 (Brian) can probably answer that question.

I think I have a light duty one that I can use, but then I need to add the solenoid back to the mix and then determine whether mine is grounded or ungrounded.  Correct, but you will also need a correct ignition switch, which will be different than original.

 

What is the advantage to converting it to a coil system instead of magneto? There is no advantage to converting unless a magneto or flywheel fails and a replacement is unavailable.  .....Also, if an engine has been replaced by one without a magneto, the coil is easier to adapt than to find a magneto to fit the replacement engine.

 

A magneto ignition does not need power from a battery.  ....The magneto ignition generates its own spark when the magnets in the flywheel pass by the iron laminations of the magneto.  .....The ignition system is composed of the magneto assy, the flywheel, and points & condenser. ....The key switch connects the points & condenser to ground when the key is "off."  ....When the key is "on" the ground is interrupted, allowing the engine to run.

 

The round-can coil ignition uses battery (12v) voltage to generate a spark.  .....The flywheel does not have magnets, and is not part of the ignition system.  .....The ignition system is composed of the battery, keyswitch, coil, points & condenser.   .....When the key switch is "off" there is no power flowing through the switch.  .....It is not connected to ground.   .....When the key switch is "on", 12volts go to the ignition coil.  ....The spark is controlled by the opening and closing of the points.  .....When the key is in the "start" position, 12 volts go to the ignition coil, and the solenoid is activated.  ....This is were it gets confusing because some solenoids require 12v + to operate, while others require the small terminal to be grounded.  .....The switch and solenoid need to be compatible. 

 

 What I am getting is that on the magneto system, the magneto setup is totally independent of the other wiring, except that the switch needs to be in the "on" position, while the ignition coil system is all wired together through a 3 position switch, solenoid, voltage regulator.  No. The solenoid and voltage regulator are not part of the ignition circuit.   .....The solenoid is only for the starting function.  ....The voltage regulator only regulates the amount of charge put out by the generator.  

 

There may be some confusion because often the solenoid terminals are wired into the charging circuit.  .....This is just an easy place to make electrical junction points.


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#19 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 30, 2013 - 06:45 PM

Thank you for the advise.  I would like to get the tractor back to the way it was originally wired.  Is the heavy duty push button switch hard to come by?  I think I have a light duty one that I can use, but then I need to add the solenoid back to the mix and then determine whether mine is grounded or ungrounded.  What is the advantage to converting it to a coil system instead of magneto?  What I am getting is that on the magneto system, the magneto setup is totally independent of the other wiring, except that the switch needs to be in the "on" position, while the ignition coil system is all wired together through a 3 position switch, solenoid, voltage regulator.

 

I have not come across a NOS one yet but there are plenty of Used ones to go around I would think.

You may want to check with one of our site sponsors who deals in used parts.


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#20 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2013 - 10:31 AM

Thanks again for your help.  This has been totally confusing for me.  I talked with Sam's Bolens and he had a ignition switch and push button switch for my model.  I am going to try it when it comes in and I will go from there.  This has been a huge learning experience for me.



#21 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 10, 2013 - 10:07 PM

I have finally got it started!  Thank to all of you guys help and advice.  However, I tried to test the points with a light tester and it did not light up.  Also, I am not getting spark to the spark plug.  The starter and voltage regulator seem to be working fine.  My question now is should I replace the points and condenser next or is there something else I should try first?  If it is not the points or condenser, should I try getting another magneto.  Just some extra information, I wired the tractor according to the Bolens 1000 diagram with a 2 position switch and heavy duty push button without a solenoid.



#22 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 07:07 AM

I have finally got it started!  Thank to all of you guys help and advice.  However, I tried to test the points with a light tester and it did not light up.  Also, I am not getting spark to the spark plug.  The starter and voltage regulator seem to be working fine.  My question now is should I replace the points and condenser next or is there something else I should try first?  If it is not the points or condenser, should I try getting another magneto.  Just some extra information, I wired the tractor according to the Bolens 1000 diagram with a 2 position switch and heavy duty push button without a solenoid.

 

Your terminology is a bit confusing!

 

Are you trying to say that the engine cranks with the starter, but will not run?

 

If it does not run, how do you know that the voltage regulator is "working fine" ???

 

I also do not understand when you say "I tried to test the points with a light tester and it did not light up."  ...Please describe what you did.  .....If this is a continuity tester, then the light should light except when the points are open.  ....Clean the points with a piece of brown paper bag to remove any oil film which may be on the points.



#23 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 09:49 AM

As explained to me on a previous post, the starter circuit and the magneto/points circuit are independent of each other.  I did get the starter to turn over and turn the flywheel, however, the spark plug is not getting any spark.  I used a light tester and touched it to the points when I was trying to start the tractor and it did not light up.  The points don't appear to me moving back and forth either, but they may need some adjusting?  This makes me think that I may need to replace them.  I did try cleaning the points, but that did not help.  I guess I will try the points kit first and then look at the magneto if that doesn't work?



#24 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 02:51 PM

 I used a light tester and touched it to the points when I was trying to start the tractor and it did not light up.   If you are using a 12v test light to check the points, that will not work, as there is no battery voltage present at the points!   .....On a magneto ignition system, all the points do is open and close the electrical path to ground.

 

If you are using a continuity test light, the correct method is to connect the tester to each side of the points.  ....When the points are closed, the light will light, and go "out" when the points open.

 

 The points don't appear to me moving back and forth either, but they may need some adjusting?  This makes me think that I may need to replace them.  

 

If the points are not opening and closing, then they are probably still good, and just need proper adjustment.  .....These Wisconsin engines require accuracy when adjusting the points, as they are sensitive to ignition timing (which is controlled by point adjustment.)

.


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, August 11, 2013 - 02:51 PM.

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#25 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2013 - 06:23 PM

Thank you.  That gives me something to look at next.  Any ideas why the spark plug is not getting any fire?  Could the points be causing this or is it more likely the magneto?  Sorry, I don't know anything about magneto ignitions, other than what I have learned from you all here.



#26 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2013 - 07:06 PM

Ok. So I replaced the points and condenser and set the gap on the points to .024 which was what the Chilton book for the Wisconsin engine said. I also pulled the flywheel and cleaned the contacts on the flywheel and magneto with an emery cloth. Still no spark. I tried testing with a spark plug tester and by grounding to the block. No spark. Lastly, I tried replacing the spark plug with a new one. No luck.

Is the magneto bad at this point? If so, should I replace it or try to convert it to a coil system?

I'm stuck at this point.

I saw another post about the copper ribbon cable getting grounded to the points cover and causing issues. I will look at that next.

#27 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 08:38 AM

Ok. So I replaced the points and condenser and set the gap on the points to .024 which was what the Chilton book for the Wisconsin engine said. I also pulled the flywheel and cleaned the contacts on the flywheel and magneto with an emery cloth. Still no spark. I tried testing with a spark plug tester and by grounding to the block. No spark. Lastly, I tried replacing the spark plug with a new one. No luck.

Is the magneto bad at this point? If so, should I replace it or try to convert it to a coil system?

I'm stuck at this point.

I saw another post about the copper ribbon cable getting grounded to the points cover and causing issues. I will look at that next.

 

.024 is way too big of a gap for that engine

Points gap Should be .018-.020

There is a copper terminal strip in the points box that often cracks and could be causing problems


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#28 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 09:46 AM

That's what I thought too, so I will adjust it.  But it should still be getting spark to the plug right?  I would think that it would still get spark, the timing would just be off.  I will check the copper strip, that is my next troubleshooting step.  How likely is it that the magneto has gone out?  If so, can they be rebuilt?



#29 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 10:08 AM

The spark happens when the points open. On magneto ignition the current is produced by the magnets in the flywheel passing the laminations of the coil. You want the points to open at the time of the highest current, so the gap will affect spark output. I take it the points open and shut now?

 

Also, the points have to make a good contact to ground so the current can flow prior to the points opening. I've seen new points that had a film on them and wouldn't make good contact.



#30 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2013 - 10:51 AM

Points do open and close. I will take the emery cloth to the contacts on the points and see if that helps. I will let you know how it turns out





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