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Bolens 190-01 Tractor Won't Start

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#1 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 08:56 PM

I have been working with my father-in-law on restoring a Bolens 190-01 Garden tractor.  He has had it sitting in his workshop for a long time.  We have rebuilt the starter, carb and have replaced misc. missing parts.  

 

I have tried to rewire the tractor using the wiring diagrams from the Bolens manuals, but I am not having much luck.  I replaced the solenoid and ignition switch and I am pretty sure that the voltage regulator works.  This model does not have a magneto, but a coil.  

 

I did get it to spin the starter and flywheel once, but have not gotten it to do it again.  It almost seems like something is grounded out, but I have checked my wiring versus the diagrams many times.  If anyone has any ideas that would help out, I would really appreciate it.  

 

This is one of the last steps to getting this thing running again.  He pulled all of the old wiring around 10 years ago, so I have no idea what is different from the diagram to the actual tractor.  Thanks for your help.



#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 09:05 PM

:welcometogttalk: hope you weren't waiting long to get your first post approved.
Someone who knows about Bolens will be along shortly

#3 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 01:08 AM

Welcome to GTT. Make a copy of the wiring diagram to mark up as you test each part. An ohm meter or a powered continuity tester is needed to test each component. Your symptoms may be a bad ground connection, a bad switch, or a bad wire connection. I prefer a multimeter. I got a real nice one at Sears for ten dollars. Take your time and systematically check the componets and connections then mark them off on the diagram copy. Make sure your battery is fully charged. Good Luck



#4 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 02:11 AM

First off-  Welcome to GTtalk!!  Read on......

 

Starting Systems 101:

 

 Being that your wiring has been disturbed you will need a basic understanding of how your start system works.  Once you understand how most systems work you can understand how to have the thing wired up.  Please read through the following information and fire back if you need more help.. :wave:

 

**Here's a basic flow chart how to trouble shoot your trouble..

 

Soo-->  The things you can do for Every electrical starting problem are:

First off- Load Test your battery. Replace if it's bad.  Bad battery is S.O.Luck!! :wallbanging:
 

If it's good- PTO OFF- Tranny in Neutral- Brake pressed or Parking brake set- Sitting in the seat?    Try it..

If still no go- Check / Clean all Main cable connections.. (GROUNDS TOO!!)  Battery & Frame! Retry..

If still no go- With parking brake on and PTO And KEY OFF and Tranny in neutral and NO GAS fumes present as **this will spark!**-> Jump the solenoid's large terminals with pliers or one side of a set of jumper cables to see if it cranks. (this bypasses the solenoid and JUST tests the starter)  If it doesn't crank or at least try to, The starter is bad or locked up (Bendix / gear is stuck out and still engaged in flywheel)  Try turning the crankshaft by hand to ensure it's not seized/locked up also..  If the starter turns & the engine cranks you will need to investigate further..  If not-  Shop for a new starter or repair your present one..  

 

So Read on to investigate further.....

Next- Hook a test light up to the Positive terminal on your battery. Test it to a good ground (negative terminal) to be sure it lights up. Test it to your starter case. Light is good, no light is bad ground somewhere..   (This shouldn't be an issue if you followed above instructions??) :thumbs:
 

Go to the starter Solenoid. Different solenoids are made but they all perform the same function. They magnetize via a small coil to connect two large/main wire connections. (battery cable directly to the starter..) The small terminals are for the activation coil/electromagnet.  To test and verify your Solenoid is working, test with all safety's on/ neutral/ brake set/ KEY OFF similar to above but instead of hooking the solenoid's main terminals together you will supply 12V+ to the solenoid's activation lug.  (to determine which one it is if there are two small terminals, unplug both wires and test both wires to ground by hooking the test light to the battery's positive terminal.  If it lights up that is the ground wire.  Reattach that ground wire to the solenoid and use your pliers or a hunk of wire to connect the battery side big terminal of the solenoid to the open or unplugged terminal on the solenoid.  The starter should crank away as above if the solenoid is good.  If it doesn't, you gotta go a-solenoid shopping!  WOO HOO!!  Replace it and if the problem STILL isn't resolved (but the engine cranks)..  Read on below..   (I know you are just on the edge of your seat huh??? :smilewink:

 

Soooo..  To continue on if you still have issues:

 

The other (or the single if there is only one) small terminal on the solenoid is the 12V+ Start signal that is ONLY provided when you turn the key to Start if all Safety Interlocks are as they should be with good connections and all connections are clean / made. **Note- Some starting systems MAY have positive power @ the solenoid and the negative side is used for the starting circuit! (Kinda unusual but possible-  Gotta love DC power baby!!)  So if there is always 12V+ present @ that little solenoid terminal instead of a constant ground we were looking for as indicated above you would be scratching your head like crazy!!   :wallbanging:   So your starting system is the same theory but the negative or ground is used for starter activation!!-   Some use a combination of both sides to activate the dang circuit (Cub Cadet's Safety Relays use negative circuitry to enable the positive start activation via those relays?!?!  :wallbanging:)  Post a thread in the appropriate forum for help if you do!!

So... you trouble-shot the solenoid & starter above..  So if it cranks by bypassing the starting circuit you have Ignition Switch, Start circuit or Safety Interlock troubles..  Read on please if you are still awake, breathing and aware... :beer:
 

Here's the initial steps to test / ring out almost ANY Starting Circuit- 

1) DID you perform the tests above. (if not- shame on you!!)  That determines for sure that the Start Circuit is at fault (Hint-->> did you check the GROUNDS too??)

2) Begin Start Circuit testing @ the ignition switch. Find the (B) or Battery Positive connector on the back of the Ignition switch. As long as the battery is good and the Fuse is intact and the connections are good--> A test light connected to battery Negative (-) or frame (verified by testing to the battery's positive (+) terminal) should light up. If not- Test that wire back to the battery or Solenoid main positive 12V+ where it is hooked up. (**It's possible that--> if the wiring has been worked on it could be connected to the wrong side (starter) of the solenoid..  :wallbanging:

Rewire and try again so have a cup of coffee and re-read all the above!!)   :deadhorse:  

 

 


3) So now you have 12V+ at the IGNITION switch's 'B' (battery) terminal with the key on or off!!

 

Great!  Have a pop!

 

The next step is to set all Safety's and PTO off and turn the key to Start. There is One terminal (usually labeled 'S')  on your Ignition switch which is your start circuit activation wire. It should only test 12V+ with either your meter or test light hooked to ground AND the Key turned to the START position.   If not- the Ignition Switch is wrong or bad. This is true of almost every tractor start system. **Replace it with the correct type as there are many different configurations available even though they come with the same plug / terminal design. (look the same-  BUT ARE DIFFERENT..  **WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MAKE THINGS EASY YOU SAY??) :wallbanging:    Take your old switch with you and compare to be sure they match. 

4) So if you get 12V+ @ the start terminal WITH THE KEY TURNED TO START NOW)  everything is great up to that point. This is where the Safety Interlocks come into play. This is Very different from tractor to tractor and if you still need help from here you will need to ask in the appropriate forum with the type of tractor and model# and type of engine so somebody can help you with the particular way to check your machine as THEY VARY A LOT. 
       (**Always feel free to post if you don't understand!!)

 

Don't shoot the messenger-->  Just trying to help!trink40.gif

 


Tractor ON BABY& See ya around!! smiley-greet013.gif


Edited by WNYTractorTinkerer, December 30, 2012 - 02:46 AM.

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#5 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 02:21 AM

My tool of choice to check a starting system would be a 12v test light. You have a heavy wire going from the battery positive to the starter solenoid. You have a heavy wire going from the other side of the solenoid to the starter. A small wire will go from the positive side of the solenoid to the B terminal of the ignition switch. That wire is usually fused with a 30 amp fuse. You should have a wire going from the S term at the switch to the small term on the starter solenoid. It should supply 12v to the small term and the solenoid should energize and spin the starter. Sometimes a multimeter can show you the 12v but a poor connection might not give the amperage to operate it. The light wil be bright if full voltage and dim if not enough voltage. You need a wire going from the I term of the switch to the ppositive side of the coil. The negative side goes to the points. You should have power to the coil with the key in run or start position. hope this gets you started and the engine running. We can worry about the charging and other circuits later. Good Luck!!

Looks lke WNYTT beat me to the post while I was typing. Lots of good info there!
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#6 mjodrey OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 05:30 AM

Welcome to the forum.Glad to have you with us.


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#7 Farmlife OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 07:36 AM

welcome to the forum.... :welcometogttalk:  :wewantpics: feel free to post pics of your toys.....



#8 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:21 AM

A 190-01 Would make it the Bolens 1000.

 

This tractor originally was powered by magneto ignition but by the sounds of it a coil was added to replace the magneto (Which was a very common thing to to)

 

So with this being said the original 2 prong ignition switch will no longer work with the coil installed. You should atleast be able to turn the engine over with the push button starter (Left hand side of the dash)

 

If you can post a few pictures so we can see how your tractor is setup we may be able to find any problems in the wiring.


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#9 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:49 AM

WNYTTs explanation is very good. It might be helpful to copy it and post it by itself under "Starting Systems 101".


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#10 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:48 AM

WNYTTs explanation is very good. It might be helpful to copy it and post it by itself under "Starting Systems 101".

 

I have been working on fine tuning this for a while to try and give folks steps to wrap their heads around Starting systems and how to make sense of them.. Folks without a lot of experience may be able to grasp the way things work and how to trouble-shoot the Start circuit on both ends without getting into the Safeties and all the little Interlocks/ switches in the middle of the circuit!  It can be daunting to say the least-  I've been there too!! :wallbanging:

 

The Safeties and Interlocks vary greatly from tractor to tractor but the Start circuit's beginnings & end sections are almost exactly the same!!  So going through this process will be a great starting point for them if they follow the steps.  Many times it will give them exactly the tools they need to chase down troubles to isolate the problem with just a test light and getting the battery load tested instead of the usual electrical system 'guess and replace parts unnecessarily' (they are OK and aren't your problem!) and save them a lot of $$$$.  

 

If the Mod type folks want to grab this and tweak it and pin it up on forums feel free to do so!!  I'd just be happy to have helped our fellow tractor fans!! :thumbs:  **Thanks for the vote Boyscout862!

 

See ya next year!! :dancingbanana:


Edited by WNYTractorTinkerer, December 30, 2012 - 03:18 PM.

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#11 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2012 - 09:50 AM

I have been working with my father-in-law on restoring a Bolens 190-01 Garden tractor.   We have rebuilt the starter, carb and have replaced misc. missing parts.  

 

I have tried to rewire the tractor using the wiring diagrams from the Bolens manuals, but I am not having much luck.  I replaced the solenoid and ignition switch and I am pretty sure that the voltage regulator works.  This model does not have a magneto, but a coil.  

 

I did get it to spin the starter and flywheel once, but have not gotten it to do it again.  It almost seems like something is grounded out, but I have checked my wiring versus the diagrams many times.  If anyone has any ideas that would help out, I would really appreciate it.  

 

Your 190-01 Bolens never had a solenoid originally, so that may be part of your problem.  ....The push-button starter switch on the tractor was used instead of a solenoid.

 

There are two types of solenoids used on Bolens tube-frame tractors.  ....One is the grounded type, the other is the un-grounded type.  .....You do not have to get a solenoid from Bolens, but it is very easy to get screwed-up if the wrong type of solenoid is purchased from a supplier and installed. 

 

Here is a link to info on Bolens solenoids:  http://gardentractor...identification/

 

Bolens also had several different key switches for the various models, so if you have the wrong key switch, it is also very easy to get screwed-up.

 

As Bolens 1000 said in a previous post, your tractor was equipped with a magneto originally, so a different (from original) key switch is needed if you are using a 12v coil.

 

The original key switch had nothing to do with cranking the engine.  ....The engine would crank whenever the push-buttton switch was activated.  .....The key switch controlled the ignition circuit by connecting the points/condenser/magneto to ground when the key switch was in the "off" position. ...So, the key switch had to be "on" in order to allow the engine to run.

 

When using a 12v coil in place of the magneto, the key switch must supply 12v + to the positive side ot the ignition coil when the key is in the "start" and "on" positions. ....The negative side of the coil gets connected to the points & condenser.  ....The key switch does not connect the coil to ground in the "off" position, it just prevents the 12v + from going to the coil.

 

The voltage regulator has nothing to do with the tractor starting (unless it is wired incorrectly).  ...The regulator's only function is to control the charging rate of the generator.

 

It will be much easier to help you, if you can identify the type of solenoid you are using, and why you installed one.  .....Also, describe your key switch, and which wiring diagram you are using.

 

As a side note, when requesting help for a problem, try to be as specific as possible, so others may have a better understanding of the problem.  .....For example: "engine won't start" vs. "engine won't crank" vs. "engine cranks, but won't start" vs. "engine starts, but won't stay running". 


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#12 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted July 28, 2013 - 10:02 PM

Thank you all for your help and input.  I have taken the engine apart and determined that the engine is a magneto engine and not a coil, like I suspected previously.  I have heard some people post that since it is a magneto, I do not need a solenoid.  If I do not need this, then why would it be installed?  I do not have a lot of specific information regarding the type of solenoid or switch, I have replaced the switch and solenoid, but now I am thinking that was the wrong thing to do.  I still have the old ones and will go back to the original equipment.  I did read about testing the solenoid to see if it is grounded or ungrounded, so that is my next step.  Does anyone have a wiring diagram specific to the Bolens 1000?  I have found a wiring diagram for virtually every other model out there, but not the Bolens 1000 with Magneto.  Also, just to confirm, for it to turn over, I will need to have the tractor in neutral, brake pressed or parking brake on and PTO off.  I would post pictures, but I have pulled all of the wiring out 2 or 3 times out of frustration.

 

I apologize if I am not giving enough information, I am just trying to get my head around what I need to get this working.  I know I am missing the push button start, need a replacement switch and may need a new voltage regulator or solenoid.  Would it be easier to just start fresh with a new replacement solenoid/voltage regulator/push button/switch combo?

 

This has been a learning experience for me, but has also been very frustrating.  I know it will all be worth it once I get it going again.  Thank you all for your help.



#13 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2013 - 01:07 AM

Here is page 15 of the Tube Frame Service & Repair Manual that you can find here:

 

http://gardentractor...anual-552875-1/

 

It's the wiring diagram for the 600, 800, 900, and 1000.

 

 

Attached Files


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#14 Bolensnewbie OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2013 - 09:45 AM

Thank you Tractorholic.

 

Where does the engine ground wire run from?  This diagram seems much simpler than the other ones I was referred to.  I am concerned now that I may have burned out my voltage regulator and my switch looks different.  Anybody know where to find a replacement two position switch and push button switch for this? 



#15 sodisr OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2013 - 01:24 PM

tinkerer

 

    Exelent  wright up  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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