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Rear Axle Seals For Panzer


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#1 cookiemonster OFFLINE  

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Posted December 28, 2012 - 05:37 PM

Okay guys.  Haven't been signed in for a while.  Real busy. Got a promotion, not sure if that's good or bad, but that's the way it's been.  

 

Though I did manage to get one thing done, though it was weeks in the making.  Wanted to get the panzer in shape for snow plowing, and the brakes hadn't been changed in 50 years.... So I took the brakes to be relined at Keystone Spring in Lawrenceville, PA.  Though the real delay came when I went to put in an axle seal.  I measured it and went out looking for a custom fit seal.  The first place I went took the order, contacted me the next day to see if I was a business to charge sales tax, then contacted me later to tell me there was a 2 week lead time.  Week and a half later, I call to check in on it and they tell me the minimum quantity is 100 which of course I don't need.

 

Then I ordered a different seal off drillspot.com.  And for a while, I wasn't sure that it was going to come either, but it did yesterday and I was happy to see it go back together... albeit 5 weeks later.

 

I took some very poor pictures of the seal and the job, but all it took was cleaning up the inside of the brake backing plate with a dremel and one of those titanium grinding bits.  Pics!

 

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#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 28, 2012 - 05:58 PM

Nice job. Will it be ready for tomorrow?



#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 28, 2012 - 08:40 PM

The seal lips appears to be riding on the keyway slot, or is this an optical illusion?



#4 cookiemonster OFFLINE  

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Posted December 28, 2012 - 09:00 PM

Nice job. Will it be ready for tomorrow?

 

Yep, it's ready right now.  Tested it out on the street and it left chain marks from spinning around on one brake as I tested each of them.

 

The seal lips appears to be riding on the keyway slot, or is this an optical illusion?

It does look like that in the picture, but the keyway slot does end just before the seal and it's smooth all the way around. There was no seal on it to begin with, just a  broken gasket that had a hole punched out for the axle. but it looks like you can see the shadow of where the seal used to ride on the axle back when it was on chrysler car and the seal rides right there.


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#5 Canawler OFFLINE  

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Posted December 28, 2012 - 09:39 PM

You know, I never really looked at the seal and bearing setup on one of these.  I wasn't expecting it to be in the backing plate.  For some reason, I thought there was an inner seal inboard of the bearings and then the outer seal would mount in the end of the housing.  Guess not.


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#6 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 12:21 AM

The panzers used cut down Plymouth rear ends. I wouldn't doubt what these were bought used and refurbed. Not sure what type year differences there were but that would be another angle to check for parts. I think the brake shoes interchange also.



#7 cookiemonster OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 08:40 AM

You know, I never really looked at the seal and bearing setup on one of these.  I wasn't expecting it to be in the backing plate.  For some reason, I thought there was an inner seal inboard of the bearings and then the outer seal would mount in the end of the housing.  Guess not.

To be honest, I don't know if the seal is supposed to go in the backing plate, either. It just seemed convenient because of that indentation in it and the fact that there is gaskets between the backing plate and the end of the axle housing.  I just replaced what was a big flat gasket with a hole in the middle (Dandy Sales did say they didn't make those any longer) with an grease seal.  It very well could be that this is not the way the chrysler would have been, but it will work to keep that little bit of grease out of the brakes.



#8 fxrs55 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 11:43 AM

You know, I never really looked at the seal and bearing setup on one of these.  I wasn't expecting it to be in the backing plate.  For some reason, I thought there was an inner seal inboard of the bearings and then the outer seal would mount in the end of the housing.  Guess not.

I looked over all of the parts manuals I got from Dandy sales and there is no standard style

oil seal listed. But they do list a vellumoid spacer/gasket combo. It looks like the

spacer next to the backing plate has a hole a little smaller than the axle diameter

so it seals the back plate to diff housing and seals the axle also. Duel purpose

money saver. Here is a picture of mine when I first got it. This tractor other

than an engine replacment was original. There is no real axle seal. I like your

upgrade and when spring comes I may do the same as yours. I was looking and

the diff fill plug and its below the axle, so gear oil is not filled to that level.

The instructions for oil level is 3/4" of an inch below filler plug,

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#9 fxrs55 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 11:45 AM

What is the part number for that seal, picture is a little blurry. thanks

#10 cookiemonster OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 12:15 PM

I looked over all of the parts manuals I got from Dandy sales and there is no standard style

oil seal listed. But they do list a vellumoid spacer/gasket combo. It looks like the

spacer next to the backing plate has a hole a little smaller than the axle diameter

so it seals the back plate to diff housing and seals the axle also. Duel purpose

money saver. Here is a picture of mine when I first got it. This tractor other

than an engine replacment was original. There is no real axle seal. I like your

upgrade and when spring comes I may do the same as yours. I was looking and

the diff fill plug and its below the axle, so gear oil is not filled to that level.

The instructions for oil level is 3/4" of an inch below filler plug,

 

The seal I used was here:

http://www.drillspot...l_Case_Oil_Seal

 

Yes, the stock arrangement is that there is a gasket that covers the entire area over the end of the axle housing with a hole punched in the center for the axle to come through.  However, Dandy is not making them (at least for the 1107) and advised to just make one out of a solid gasket sheet.  Though admittedly the stock setup isn't so good because the bearings turning eventually "chew" out the center of the gasket.  Even intact, a little grease is still able to make it's way down the axle and into the brake housing over years and decades.  I'm thinking that living in hill country probably gives a little more seepage if one is occasionally on the side of a hill as well.



#11 fxrs55 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 12:25 PM

I understand what you're saying and beleave your observations with the hills
and decades of use will seep/leak. Thanks for the seal info and pictures
of upgrade.

#12 Canawler OFFLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2012 - 04:54 PM

As far as the fill level goes, I believe these are installed upside down from how they were designed for automotive use.  Is the fill plug at the original Chrysler location or did Copar/VaMetal add one? (I guess I should just go out to the shed and check the Meteor but I'm too lazy right now)

 

Does anyone know if the later Panzers and Meteors have the rears without the removable hub?  Chrysler started using one piece axles with pressed on bearings in '65.  I wondered if any of them found their way into the tractor production by '68 or '69?  In the Mopar world, the earlier rears are considered far more difficult to deal with.


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#13 cookiemonster OFFLINE  

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 02:06 PM

As far as the fill level goes, I believe these are installed upside down from how they were designed for automotive use.  Is the fill plug at the original Chrysler location or did Copar/VaMetal add one? (I guess I should just go out to the shed and check the Meteor but I'm too lazy right now)

 

Does anyone know if the later Panzers and Meteors have the rears without the removable hub?  Chrysler started using one piece axles with pressed on bearings in '65.  I wondered if any of them found their way into the tractor production by '68 or '69?  In the Mopar world, the earlier rears are considered far more difficult to deal with.

I don't know but I think that if you have a meteor and this is an 1107 which are both among the latest years that the answer is no.  That change would definitely conflict with the parts list as well.






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