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Large Frame Johnson Loader ?


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49 replies to this topic

#31 pigsitter OFFLINE  

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Posted March 17, 2013 - 08:46 AM

 I'll just go when the crackheads are sleeping. Lol

That may be a problem,from what I've seen they go for days on end til they finally collapse,figuring the weekend has just passed  Wednesday or Thursday might be good! :thumbs: :rolling:



#32 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 18, 2013 - 10:19 PM

Back to square one.

Pulled the leaking cylinder, and a good one.
It seems the seal I put in the FIRST time is not the same as the good cylinder, same #s but they sure aren't the same.

I measured the old seal and ordered a few from McMasters. I should have them tomorrow or the next day.

I say tomorrow, because I've ordered stuff at night and had it next day from them, I was shocked.

Pics of the old and new seals.

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#33 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 20, 2013 - 05:16 PM

She's FIXED !! No more leaky !! The seals came UPS around 4:40 and by 5:15 they were in and tested !! Not one drop has leaked out.

I GUESS those NOS seals I bought on eBay might have been bad, or the wrong part in the rite box ? At this point I don't care. Lol I'm not leaking.

If anyone needs them in future here is the part # and I bought them at McMaster - Carr. $5 and change each.

McMaster is the bomb !!

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#34 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted March 20, 2013 - 05:52 PM

She's FIXED !! No more leaky !! The seals came UPS around 4:40 and by 5:15 they were in and tested !! Not one drop has leaked out.

I GUESS those NOS seals I bought on eBay might have been bad, or the wrong part in the rite box ? At this point I don't care. Lol I'm not leaking.

If anyone needs them in future here is the part # and I bought them at McMaster - Carr. $5 and change each.

McMaster is the bomb !!

 

 

I stay away from nos like that belts, seals, o'rings, dryrot seems to like that stuff. :D


Edited by wilberj, March 20, 2013 - 05:52 PM.


#35 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 11:36 AM

Gee, guess what started leaking AGAIN ? <br />I don't get it. New seal, new O rings and it starts leaking again. The seal actually came out and was just sliding back and forth on the piston rod. <br /><br />Anyone know of a good replacement for these pistons ? It's the lift one, that's 22 1/2" long and it's 2-3/8" OD. Rod is 1-1/8"<br />If I can find them, I'm buying a pair. This is getting old. <br /><br />The rod and cylinder are very clean, not pitting or scores. I even checked the rod and it's straight as an arrow. <br /><br />Stinks, I need it for splitting big oak rounds. Unhappy camper in NJ. <br />

#36 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 01:52 PM

Wow!! What an adventure!

 

I've noticed a lot of attention on the front (wiper) seal in this thread, how about the pressure seal?

 

Daniel mentioned the possibility of a backer ring(s) to go with the o-ring, which was my first thought as I was reading through the thread.I have Fort Dodge stamped in the barrel of the cylinders on my loader and I haven't had them apart for 20 years or so, but I remember that there were backer rings involved in the rebuild. I can't remember whether they were on the piston or in the rod end cap, or both.

 

The groove for an o-ring is only a few thousandths wider than the o-ring stock. If a backer is also required, the groove will be wide enough to accommodate that as well. If only the o-ring is installed in the wider groove, it will deform into the exta space when pressure is applied, resulting in pressurized fluid getting to the back of the wiper. Wipers aren't designed to deal with more than a few psi, not a few hundred as is the case with applying down pressure. Any leakage past the pressure seal will go past the wiper. That's how the rod gets a film of oil on it for protection from the elements.

 

Think about it. There is no retainer but friction holding the wiper in place. e.g.If the wiper has an o.d. of 1.75" and an i.d. of 1.125", there is 1.4 square inches of seal for pressure to work against, unless the oil leaks past between the wiper and the rod. How much force did you apply to get that front seal out? If it was 50 or 60 lb, then it will only take 40 psi, 56 lb of force to the back of that seal to equal that force. The working pressure in the cylinder far exceeds 40 psi, or even triple that pressure. Remember, the cylinders are working against at least a 2:1 lever, plus the disadvantage of geometry which will more than double the leverage.

 

A pair of 2" cylinders can exert over 6000 lb of force at 1000 psi. When installed on a loader, that translates into about 1300 lb of payload for lifting, To apply downpressure, you have less area to work with requiring an even larger differential between pressure and effective force. That's w-a-a-y-y more than any unretained seal can withstand.

 

Your problem is inside the bore of the end cap at the pressure seal o-ring.

 

Vaseline makes a good assembly lubricant, for both hydraulics and engines. It dissolves in oil.


Edited by TUDOR, March 29, 2013 - 01:55 PM.

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#37 John@Reliable OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 01:54 PM

Ken, check the link below

 

https://www.surplusc...ic&keyword=HCD2


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#38 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 07:11 PM

Bob (Tudor) thanks for you input. And yes, my dumb a$$ was not paying attention to what Daniel said way back when. <br />I also listened to a fork lift repair guy that I met at the Parker Store, and he looked at it and said just replace the O rings and seals. <br /><br />It's obviously more to it and the backing plastic rings need to be replaced as well. I'll be going to the cylinder repair/rebuild place first thing Monday am. (While the crack heads in Camden are sleeping) I'm going to take it with me so they can match it all up. And I'll be getting enough to do all 4 cylinders. <br /><br />Stay tuned !!

#39 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 29, 2013 - 07:13 PM

Ken, check the link below

https://www.surplusc...ic&keyword=HCD2


John, thanks for the link, I love that place. I bought my replacement 2 spool valve for my splitter from them last year. And boy do they have a selection of cylinders.

#40 1967bolens collector OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2013 - 01:39 PM

i think i would just buy 2 new cylinders if there not too much... something on the ram has to be scoreing the seal or you got to much psi but i dought that.... is it the lift cyl or the dump cyl?



#41 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2013 - 02:27 PM

Lift cylinder Sam, I believe it has to be the backing rings that need replacement along with the O rings like said before and again by Tudor. I'm going to Camden on Monday to the cylinder rebuild place. If they don't have the parts, I'll head to Fazzios Surplus warehouse in Glassboro, they most likely will have cylinders that will work. But I'm thinking and hoping I don't have to go that route. <br /><br />Ever been to Fazzios ? You can't go there without buying more stuff then you went for, it's just not possible. Lol

#42 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2013 - 09:35 PM

Raise your hand if your tired of hearing about my dam leaky loader !! <br /><br />I spoke to a friend this evening that knows Bolens large frames and their attachments like the back of his hand. <br /><br />Described what was going on and what I had done. Well it seems that I MISSED the O-ring that is causing my problem. There is one under a big nut that needs to be taken off to replace. I did not remove said nut. He told me that one is the most common one to wear out. It's a cheap fix, even Sears Hardware has it, very common size he said. So if Sears Hardware is open tomorrow, it will be fixed once and for all, and you guys won't be able to laugh at me any more. <br /><br />

#43 John@Reliable OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2013 - 10:16 PM

 it will be fixed once and for all, and you guys won't be able to laugh at me any more.

I would never laugh at you fixing this leak, saving it for the new tractor "overhaul edition"  :D 

 

P.S. fingers cross it's the nut 0 ring.


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#44 NJKen OFFLINE  

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Posted March 30, 2013 - 10:45 PM

it will be fixed once and for all, and you guys won't be able to laugh at me any more.
I would never laugh at you fixing this leak, saving it for the new tractor "overhaul edition" :D

P.S. fingers cross it's the nut 0 ring.


Gee, thanks John, I think.

Dam if he wasn't rite. There is an O ring under the thing that the nut hold on to the end of the rod. Four O rings total in this cylinder, I changed ImageUploadedByTapatalk1364700879.517956.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1364700900.067011.jpg 3.

The guy (Jim) is stopping over next weekend and he's bringing me something that will also make the loader pump work better.
When you bought one of these Johnson loaders new to go on a large frame with a Kohler twin, you got a pulley for the engine shaft. I've been using one of the 3 pulley slots for the PTO drive. Which has worked, but it's not correct, the other pulley supplied with the loader is a different diameter, he told me I was set up wrong when he was here to buy something from me last year. Well, he duplicated a few of the correct pulley. He's bringing me one. He works in a machine shop, and makes all kinds of parts as needed.

He also said he will tweak my control valve to make it work better.
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#45 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted March 31, 2013 - 02:32 PM

Ah-so! That's probably why my rebuilt cylinders started seeping again after a few months of work!

 

Thank you for the tip.






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