Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Lets Brainstorm For A Moment...


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted December 02, 2012 - 09:38 PM

I have wanted a four wheel drive tractor for a while, I thought that an atriculated would be the easiest way to achieve this. After Daniel posted the link to the ad of the Bush Hog with fel and four wheel drive, it made me think of possibly doing it that way. Then, the guy who bought it joined a few days later! And he was kind enough to share a bunch of pictures. (more info) Well, after looking at the pictures, I don't think it would be as hard as one might immediately think... but definitely still a lot of work.

After thinking about it a lot, I have come up with this. It is a basic sketch of a drive train in a power king. I drew it with two transmissions, because if I had a choice I would use one that had that option. The only difference really, is that the drive shaft between the rear trans and differential would have a gear on it. The gear would then have a chain going to another gear that would be on a PTO. Engage the PTO and it would put power to the drive shaft going to the front wheels.
Attached File  PK 4x4 drivetrain.bmp   24.07MB   74 downloads

I also drew up a better picture of how power would be transferred to the front differential.
Attached File  PK 4x4 drivetrain 2.bmp   24.18MB   42 downloads

The differential I used for the front would be the same as the back, and the gears with the chain would be the same size. This way, I would not have to worry about having all kinds of gear reductions. Well, as I wrote this out... I remembered the front tires are smaller then the rear tires, and this would have to be compensated for. I guess I would need different gear ratios after all!

I would use an electrical PTO. That way engaging would be as simple as a few wires and a switch, and I would not need any linkages or levers or springs and such.

The hardest part (I think) would be figuring out the steering components. Since the whole front end would need to be engineered all over, why can't power steering be a possibility? Any other ideas?

This is not a project I plan on doing right now, but I am serious about doing it. It will be at least a year before I can do it. The reason I want to wait a year or so, is because next year I will have more "play time" in my welding class to make parts I may need. Also, next year I will be learning in the machine shop and I will be able to make needed parts in there myself.

Of course, buying all of the parts new would be very pricey. I wanted to start brainstorming now to see what I might need. If I know what I need, then I could at least look out for something useful... at a cheap (or free) used price.

#2 Bmerf ONLINE  

Bmerf

    Patina Farmer / Rust Collector

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 9846
  • 1,707 Thanks
  • 1,445 posts
  • Location: benton harbor, mi

Posted December 02, 2012 - 10:24 PM

Ryan, sounds like a very ambitious project. I’ll be following along. Keep us posted as to the progress.

#3 MH81 ONLINE  

MH81

    Proud to be Deplorable

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 802
  • 27,237 Thanks
  • 28,598 posts
  • Location: N. W. PA

Posted December 02, 2012 - 10:25 PM

Did any of the PK tranny's have a transfer case plate? If so, that might make the gearing and whatnot easier.

#4 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted December 02, 2012 - 10:52 PM

Sounds like an interesting build. I have been toying with the idea also. Maybe within the year we'll be able to come up with something that will work. This will be a good thread to watch. good luck :thumbs:

#5 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

wvbuzzmaster

    Squeaky Wheel

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1792
  • 4,492 Thanks
  • 7,341 posts
  • Location: West Virginia

Posted December 03, 2012 - 02:07 AM

I had the same idea strike my brain with that BH, Ryan, only on a different style of project, easier to build (less skill and fab involved lol). I can't wait to see how your plans come along, they will be far superior to anything I ever attempt.

#6 mjodrey OFFLINE  

mjodrey

    Accumulator

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 92
  • 2,343 Thanks
  • 13,481 posts
  • Location: Upper Granville, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted December 03, 2012 - 05:27 AM

Sounds like it might be quite a doable project.

#7 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,377 Thanks
  • 39,645 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted December 03, 2012 - 05:45 AM

I'll be watching this, The hard part for me would be the spindles.

#8 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,445 Thanks
  • 6,611 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted December 03, 2012 - 06:50 AM

Ryan I always wish my 2418 had 4wd too. For that matter p/s lol . How about using a Case tractor because it's hadraulic drive with hydraulic motors from a zero turn for the front , hoses might be a nightmare unless swivels where used . Pretty sure all those big off-road machines are made like that , Al

#9 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

JD DANNELS

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 2011
  • 3,786 Thanks
  • 3,907 posts
  • Location: Newton.Ia

Posted December 03, 2012 - 09:12 AM

Ryan: One thing I'm never short on is ideas. Some actually work? MH81 is on the right track with using a transmition with a transfer case. Since the Power Kings did use a second transmition in some cases slipping another in could be a doable thing?
I've thought the Suzuki Samuari/Geo Tracker transmition could be adapted to a small tractor and possibly the front differential could be narrowed to work also? I think I would take a tape measure to a salvage yard and see how close things would be. I'm betting you could pick up a complete rotted out model for a couple hundred dollars and have the parts you need and then some. Incidently my nephew tells me they make up into a a very able rock crawler too.

If a guy was going articulated I would start by looking at the Cad Track 1500 articulated tractor(google Cad Designs they have many interesting projects) . From what I've seen of your welding and fabricating skills,way beyond you years I would bet you could handle building one of those from plans. I think some time ago someone on this site had built one(but can't rember who)?

Edited by JD DANNELS, December 03, 2012 - 09:27 AM.


#10 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

skyrydr2

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5032
  • 3,404 Thanks
  • 3,155 posts
  • Location: Gardner, Massachusetts!

Posted December 03, 2012 - 09:26 AM

Who doggy!! Your in for a ton of work!!! Nice part is you have study hall to think this rig through. :) make plenty of sketches and keep looking for other ideas and front axle arrangements.
There are tiny axles out there that might work easier for you than fabricating one too.
Good luck and I'll be watching for sure.

#11 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted December 03, 2012 - 04:23 PM

Ryan I always wish my 2418 had 4wd too. For that matter p/s lol . How about using a Case tractor because it's hadraulic drive with hydraulic motors from a zero turn for the front , hoses might be a nightmare unless swivels where used . Pretty sure all those big off-road machines are made like that , Al

Yes, the case tractors are orange too... but not really what I want. :ah_shoot: Haha! I have thought about this a lot before seeing that BH and if making an articulated tractor, a case would hands down be the way to go. The fact that the transmissions only need two lines going to them was very appealing to me. But, I am not doing an articulated now. I would like to stay away from hydraulic driven components on this project. I know this will most likely start a riot, but... I don't want the power loss that comes with the hydraulics.

Ryan: One thing I'm never short on is ideas. Some actually work? MH81 is on the right track with using a transmition with a transfer case. Since the Power Kings did use a second transmition in some cases slipping another in could be a doable thing?
I've thought the Suzuki Samuari/Geo Tracker transmition could be adapted to a small tractor and possibly the front differential could be narrowed to work also? I think I would take a tape measure to a salvage yard and see how close things would be. I'm betting you could pick up a complete rotted out model for a couple hundred dollars and have the parts you need and then some. Incidently my nephew tells me they make up into a a very able rock crawler too.

If a guy was going articulated I would start by looking at the Cad Track 1500 articulated tractor(google Cad Designs they have many interesting projects) . From what I've seen of your welding and fabricating skills,way beyond you years I would bet you could handle building one of those from plans. I think some time ago someone on this site had built one(but can't rember who)?


I thought about using something like that with narrowed axles, but decided not to; I did not want to have to worry about gear reductions. But, since I would need to speed up the driveshaft to the front differential, because of the tire size difference... maybe I could find something to work in my favor? Obviously the chances of finding a differential with the right ratio is slim to none, but I might be able to find something close!

I just looked at what people have made from those plans, and it looks like a very well designed unit! Although, that is not really what I am looking for. Yes, I do want a loader, but I want the end result of this to be something I can still use as an everyday tractor. One thing the four wheel drive would prevent is the use of front mounted implements. So, I want to adapt a snow plow to fit it. But that would come after everything else of course.

#12 UncleWillie OFFLINE  

UncleWillie

    wabbit wangler

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10399
  • 12,731 Thanks
  • 7,693 posts
  • Location: Gaston county, NC

Posted December 04, 2012 - 07:15 PM

I have nothing to ad, I just want to be included ( can't get the smilies to work right now my computer is throwing a tantrum)

#13 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,445 Thanks
  • 6,611 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted December 07, 2012 - 06:11 PM

Stumbled onto this site, check out the front differential ,wonder what it's put on as far as finding one used , Al
http://www.hilliardc...ain-clutch.html

#14 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted December 16, 2012 - 07:35 PM

Yesterday, I was organizing the garage. Bossman Harry bought about 14 tires and gave me some room in the carport tent to work with. I had enough room to put the Wheel Horse, the little toro (since I still have it :poke: ) and the four wheeler. The toro and four wheeler where both in the garage. For everything to fit I had to take the snow plow off the four wheeler, it has been on since the Halloween storm last year. When I was taking it off I started to look at the front axle. I think that the front end out of a four wheeler that is 4WD would be perfect! Since it already has the universal joints between the differential and the hubs it would eliminate a lot of work. The thing that makes it better then a narrowed axle from a samuri or other vehicle... is that I could probably find one that is already the right size! I think I could also get rid of the shocks, and somehow make the pivots into a substitute for the axle pivot that tractors normally have for the front axle. I think I would have to either modify the hubs, or modify a set of wheels though.




Top