Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Need Advice On A Kholer K301 Rebuild


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted November 25, 2012 - 05:30 PM

I am in the process of rebuilding my K301. She is all tore down and I measured everything up (multiple times even)

The cylinder is great. Low end of spec even ( 3.755)

The crank pin (journal) measures 1.497 exactly ( all the way around) used 2 different mics and 1 is a self centering Starret and they both were dead on.

No here is were I need advice, The spec for the crank journal is 1.500 - 1.4995, max wear is 1.499, mine is 1.497, the new rod comes standard as 1.500 so that is a difference of .003 and the spec on rod to crank journal is .001/.002 (new) max wear is .0025 and I have .003

So would you use the standard rod? or would you have the crank ground for an undersized rod?

I also bought a Master rebuild kit from Ebay, and everything looks good but... I am not impressed with the connecting rod. The end play is right to max limit of .020, my old one is .010 and the dipper looks like they formed and sanded it by hand.

Thanks in advance!

#2 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted November 25, 2012 - 08:06 PM

Hi Chris. If it's outside of spec I would have it machined to get a fit that is as good as new. After going to all the work and expense rebuilding the engine you don't want to have that one critical measurement outside of spec. The engine could go for another 1500 hrs when rebuilt so the cost/hr of doing it right is not that high.

#3 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted November 25, 2012 - 08:16 PM

Hi Chris. If it's outside of spec I would have it machined to get a fit that is as good as new. After going to all the work and expense rebuilding the engine you don't want to have that one critical measurement outside of spec. The engine could go for another 1500 hrs when rebuilt so the cost/hr of doing it right is not that high.

I agree. It was just so close to spec and perfectly round I just wanted to see what others have done on there rebuilds.

I guess I was hoping for someone to say " My engine still runs great after 5 years and my crank was the same size as yours!) wishful thinking lol.Thanks for the response! I do appreciate it! :thumbs:

#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted November 25, 2012 - 08:19 PM

That may still happen Chris but if it was mine I'd always be listening for a rod knock if I knew it was out of spec.

#5 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted November 25, 2012 - 08:22 PM

That may still happen Chris but if it was mine I'd always be listening for a rod knock if I knew it was out of spec.

You are 100% right! and I know me, and I too would always be listening and or wondering how the rod was doing.

#6 WNYTractorTinkerer OFFLINE  

WNYTractorTinkerer

    Tinker Master

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 10789
  • 8,317 Thanks
  • 4,664 posts
  • Location: Avon, NY

Posted November 25, 2012 - 11:12 PM

I am in the process of rebuilding my K301. She is all tore down and I measured everything up (multiple times even)

The cylinder is great. Low end of spec even ( 3.755)

The crank pin (journal) measures 1.497 exactly ( all the way around) used 2 different mics and 1 is a self centering Starret and they both were dead on.

No here is were I need advice, The spec for the crank journal is 1.500 - 1.4995, max wear is 1.499, mine is 1.497, the new rod comes standard as 1.500 so that is a difference of .003 and the spec on rod to crank journal is .001/.002 (new) max wear is .0025 and I have .003
** Is your accuracy of your micrometer's .00005"?? How experienced are you in using them? A measurement that tight (10 thousandth's) would require good testing skills and tools. It is very easy to over tighten the mic's and get a smaller reading than you should. Just like you get a 'feel' for bolt torques you will get a 'feel' for accurate measurements.. Practice makes perfect. A true test of your skills/tools would be repeated measuring of say an accredited plug gauge or other known standard.
So would you use the standard rod? or would you have the crank ground for an undersized rod? Depends on the measurement's accuracy.. It's dang close and I'd recommend that you use plastigage with the crank & now rod to accurately measure the crank-to-rod clearance. Go to your local auto parts store and they should be able to sell you some.. It's pretty cheap and accurate too..

I also bought a Master rebuild kit from Ebay, and everything looks good but... I am not impressed with the connecting rod. The end play is right to max limit of .020, my old one is .010 and the dipper looks like they formed and sanded it by hand. That's why Kohler parts cost a lot more buster.. Even their rods look cheap. as far as the end play, the journal could have been worn wider by the prior problems.. Some of my friends swear to always use the Kohler rings as they have had had bad experiences or re-rebuilds from poor ring sealing.. (I think the owner was just impatient and didn't give them time to seat..)

Thanks in advance!


Hope this help you!

#7 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted November 26, 2012 - 12:50 AM

Hope this help you!

I do appreciate the help! And yes it is very easy for someone that hasn't used a mic to tighten them to tight and not know "the feel". I am Not a Pro Machinist by any means. But working for 25 years as a Industrial Mechanic and having to make a lot of the parts for the machines I am no novice either. But I have learned from some of the best Machinists I have ever met in my life.

All my Machinist instruments had to be calibrated at work every year. And Lucky for me I had them all done before my last company closed and moved to China and Poland. (Dec 2nd last year)

I will get some Plasti gage and triple check though.

And as far as the cheap Ebay Master kit goes. I have heard a lot of talk of people wondering how good the kits are, so I decided to get one just to see how everything is made. So far the valves, Piston, wrist pin and rings look ok. but the rod, spark plug and points look like junk IMO.

The crank bearings and Valve guides I bought separate and they look good to.

Thanks for the tips and the reply! :thumbs:

#8 Alc ONLINE  

Alc

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1094
  • 5,458 Thanks
  • 6,625 posts
  • Location: Bangor Pa

Posted November 26, 2012 - 06:55 AM

Would a machine shop be able to resize the new rod to the crank ? That is if the crank is round , no tapers ect ? Not sure if they do that for small engines , Al

#9 LilysDad ONLINE  

LilysDad

    Cat Lover

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 10443
  • 9,667 Thanks
  • 7,684 posts
  • Location: N. Illinois, DeKalb County

Posted November 26, 2012 - 07:24 AM

And as far as the cheap Ebay Master kit goes. I have heard a lot of talk of people wondering how good the kits are, so I decided to get one just to see how everything is made.


I have heard talk that Sten products are just as good. Any experience on this?

#10 WNYTractorTinkerer OFFLINE  

WNYTractorTinkerer

    Tinker Master

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 10789
  • 8,317 Thanks
  • 4,664 posts
  • Location: Avon, NY

Posted November 26, 2012 - 09:52 AM

Would a machine shop be able to resize the new rod to the crank ? That is if the crank is round , no tapers ect ? Not sure if they do that for small engines , Al

Depends on the shop.. Setting up the part is the toughest in that process.. It sure looks weird when they turn the crank journals down.. The crank's counterweights are wobbling all about but the journal they are working on is rotating perfectly straight.. They could match the rod to the crank (remove less crank material) for sure also. All it takes is $$$$ & time..




Top