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#31 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 10:01 AM

I'm using 8 right now and for the most part its just like any other windows stuff except for apps running in the background that make it retarded fast , like a smart phone but not as easy ... Google blows windows(or should it be called Doors now??) I am just figuring out how to get things turned off so it stops toggling to different tabs with a stroke of the mouse pad.. Why did they need to mess with XP ?? It worked sooo so nice! I cant even start a different paragraph while typing ? if the editer is toggled on ??? Whats up with that ?? Can I run Linux with Windows office ??? If I could then I would wipe this thing clean and start over !!!!

#32 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 10:09 AM

Now I cant open my pms and stuff ..... Out rageous !! I think it may be from the tab toggle issue ? I ll see ...
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#33 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 10:15 AM

That was it ! I turned off too much LOL The more I run into things the more I find ... Scary!!!
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#34 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 11:24 AM

Keith, Depending on what version of M$ office but in general yes you can. Linux does come with Libreoffice which is the same as M$ office and you can set the default save option to save it to an Office format, but you can also run M$ Office through Wine. You can also install Openoffice if you like as well.

#35 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 05:51 PM

I'm probably one of the most tech savvy people here. I started programming in Assembler Language on IBM 360s in 1968, back when we called it Data Processing, and not IT.

I've been building my own systems for a LONG time and have been playing with PCs since the DOS days, and have used every version of Windows since Windows for Work Groups 3.11.

I'll only address Vista, Win 7 and 8.

Vista: Vista did not suck and was not all that buggy. Yes, early Vista users ran into problems but those were 99.99% caused by poor drivers supplied by folks like HP, Creative Labs, and the worst of the lot, nVidia. At one point, nVidia drivers were responsible for close to 30% of all BSODs in Vista. In a lot of cases some of the 3rd party people didn't even have drivers for Vista until long after it was released. That was NOT MS"s fault but people blamed them anyway because all they knew is that they installed Vista and it wouldn't work with their printer, scanner, etc.

Another complaint about Vista was that it was/is a 'memory hog'. Again not true. Vista uses a process called SUPER FETCH. Super Fetch runs in the background and analyzes your usage. It takes note of what programs you use and when you used them. It uses that information to PRELOAD the programs that you use most of the time into any unused memory that you have. That way when you exit from one application and click to start another, it reads it directly form memory, rather than going out to the HDD, finding it, and then loading it into memory. That is what made Vista feel so much 'snappier' than XP. That memory showed up in the task manager as being 'used' and people just assumed the Vista was a memory hog. They didn't understand that Vista was just storing applications in memory that wasn't being used by the current application anyway. Superfetch would instantly release the memory that it was using if the current application needed it, so running out of memory was never an issue.

I could never understand why people would have a lot of memory, and then complain when it was actually being used instead of just sitting there empty. I use an application called HyperOS that allows for multiple installs of XP, Vista and Win 7. I currently have 2 installs of Vista, and 3 installs of Windows 7. I have 16 Gigs of memory, and Vista with Super Fetch shows most of it as "being used". To tell the truth I like Vista better than 7 for that, as one of the things that MS did with 7 was to 'tone down' Super Fetch to appease the ignorant.

Probably the WORST thing about Vista, and something that was a legitimate complaint was the "Vista Ready" program. That could be laid at MS's feet, and there were a lot of systems sold as being Vista Ready that were not really capable of running anything other than Vista Basic, and when people tried to run higher versions of Vista on them and they just couldn't do it.

Windows 7:

MS not being stupid, did things differently with 7. One of the biggest things was the release of "Beta Versions" to the public and using feedback from folks that installed it. Also, being mostly a 'refresh' of Vista, 7 was a fairly 'mature' OS at the beginning. Drivers were not an issue, as even if a 3rd party mfg didn't have "Windows 7" drivers, their Vista drivers would work with 7.

7 still uses Super Fetch, but MS made it much less aggressive, so the people that like to see most of their memory just sitting there unused were happy. Personally, I wish that MS would have given the option for the user to set the level of aggressiveness, just like they do with the User Accounts Control. UAC is that 'nag' that asks it you want to let a program make changes. With Vista it was on or off. With 7, you have 4 levels, and makes UAC a lot less intrusive.

7 boots up faster, which makes people happy but really doesn't make a difference as to the quality of an OS.

MS also did some under the hood stuff that makes 7 usable on older systems that were not capable of running Vista. I have Win 7 installed on a old Asus EEE 900 netbook. It actually runs better with 7 than it did with XP. Vista would not have even installed on that rascal.

Windows 8:

I installed the beta version on my system, tried to use it for a week, and uninstalled it. I HATED it. I just couldn't get used to the METRO UI, and missed the 'Start Button". Now that there is an APP that gives you the option of getting that back, I may give 8 another chance.

The wife has an Acer W700 tablet that has a touch screen. It came with Windows 7 and Windows Touch for 7 on it. She wanted 8 on it, so I installed it for her. She kept asking "How do I do this"? I had to tell her "I don't know, play with it a bit or look in HELP & SUPPORT". :D Since the UI is so much different from 7 there was a learning curve, but now that she have been using it for a month or so, she says she likes it much better than 7 on the tablet. With a touch screen, 8 becomes a horse of a different color.

My take on 8 is that it's an OS that is slightly ahead of the current hardware. As touch screens become more prevalent, I think that 8 will be looked at as a good OS. If MS would have given us the option of turning off the METRO UI, and having a more 7 like UI for using on a desktop with a mouse and keyboard, people would be singing the praises of 8 all day long.

Edited by OldBuzzard, December 09, 2012 - 05:57 PM.

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#36 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 06:04 PM

... Why did they need to mess with XP ?? It worked sooo so nice! ...


I just HAVE to address this.

When XP was released, it was looked at just like Vista if not worse. XP at release was HORRIBLE. It wasn't until the SP2 version that XP really became a good OS.

I guess part of the reason that folks forget that is that is that there was such a long gap in time from the release of XP to the release of Vista, and a lot of folks using PCs at that time weren't using them when the change from 98 to XP happened.
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#37 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 08:29 PM

OB, Like you I have a pretty good background in IT. I started off with Dos database programming and went to Win 3.1 and on up through 98, NT, Win 200o etc. I have worked or contracted to numerous IT departments my last being an AT&T company.

I have to disagree with you when it comes to vista. As I recall M$ managed to screw that release up all by them selves. The driver issue came about because M$ did not release the code for the companies to write the drivers and then at the last minute they changed the code. There was some big news articles on the Tech sites about this.

Then they forced Mfg's to install Vista on their PC's even when the hardware could not support it so it got labeled as a dog. This was also a big reason Business did not adopt Vista, they would have spent big $$$ to replace 3/4 if not all their computers to meet the minimum requirements for Vista. I have replaced Vista with Linux on numerous PC's just to get some performance out of them. Having Super Fetch running in the background loading up app's just incase on a system that does not have the resource's is crazy. 16 GB is more memory then most people have today. The standard is about 4 GB today back when Vista was released it was 1-2 GB. I would imagine Vista would run quite well with 16 GB on a dual or quad core machine but that is a lot of horse power to be required to run a word processor or spreadsheet.

I don't think people have forgotten about the long gab as it was the long gap that made XP a successful OS. It took M$ that long to get everything worked out. In the end XP became a reliable OS and that is why people continue to want it. Most folk could care less what the OS does as long as the app's they use or the game they play run with out issues.

I really can't comment on Win 8 since I have not used it or really seen it. Win 7 as far as I can tell has been OK. at least the wife doesn't have to many problems with it. I do like it's backup feature and being able to burn a CD or DVD without additional software.

As many of you know I'm a big fan of Linux and although it is not perfect at least I have options that I did not have using Windows.

Well I'll get off my soapbox now. Hope I haven't ruffled any feather if so I'm sorry.
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#38 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 08:55 PM

No feathers ruffled here :D

I have to disagree with you when it comes to vista. As I recall M$ managed to screw that release up all by them selves. The driver issue came about because M$ did not release the code for the companies to write the drivers and then at the last minute they changed the code. There was some big news articles on the Tech sites about this.


Yes that was true to a certain extent, but those companies drug their feet for way too long. I will note that ATI had no problems with having Vista drivers ready to go while nVidia, with far more resources didn't/couldn't/wouldn't. Cannon had printer and scanner drivers ready as well, while HP, Lexmark and others didn't. I think some of the mfgs saw Vista as an excuse to force users to buy new equipment rather than provide drivers for earlier eqipment.

Then they forced Mfg's to install Vista on their PC's even when the hardware could not support it so it got labeled as a dog.


I would blame mfgs for trying to dump old hardware KNOWING that it wasn't really Vista Ready.

This was also a big reason Business did not adopt Vista, they would have spent big $$$ to replace 3/4 if not all their computers to meet the minimum requirements for Vista.


Not to mention that there were a LOT of applications that just wouldn't run on Vista. However that was mostly because of poor/sloppily written applications and the unwillingness of the vender to provide updates that would run on Vista.

Windows 7 addressed that issue to a certain extent with "Virtual XP", but there are still a lot of businness 'holding out'.

In any event, I'm not saying that Vista was perfect. No OS is, especially at launch. However, I think Vista has been given a reputation that it just doesn't deserve, and is a far better OS than a lot of people think.

Edited by OldBuzzard, December 09, 2012 - 08:58 PM.

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#39 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 10:53 PM

How come no one is saying how good Windows ME was??? :rolling:

#40 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 11:08 PM

Back in the late 90's I had an ageing computer with Win 2000 on it. My Wife's grandmother wanted to do something for me because I had been doing a few projects for her so she bought me an HP computer with ME on it. I don't think I had it running 5 minutes before I wiped the Hard drive and installed Win 2000 on it. I still have that computer too. I think it currently has XP installed.
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#41 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

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Posted December 09, 2012 - 11:58 PM

How come no one is saying how good Windows ME was??? :rolling:


ME was a Jekyll and Hyde OS. For some people it worked great, and for others it was never ending horror story.

I had a Sony Lap top with ME and it never even hiccuped. It always worked great.

I knew some other folks with ME that had nothing but problem after problem after problem.

I'd say that it probably deserves the bad reputation that it has, as it seemed that there more folks had problems with it than us few lucky souls that had no problems.
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#42 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 01:14 AM

My boss's first business laptop had ME on it. It was my first experience trying to save a computer from it's own OS. Gawd, what a piece of crap on that machine. OB, I'm glad you didn't suffer with yours like most people did.

A few years later, I was given a machine with it on it. Guy said his kid never could make it work right after the upgrade to ME. Wiped it and installed the OEM NT4+ discs that came with the machine. Gave it to a friend who needed a computer. He later gave it to his kids. Next time I see him, I'll have to ask... :D

#43 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 07:59 AM

Well what has ticked me off the most is this win 8 rig doesn't run until you open a ms email account WTF IS that?? Or is it some sales ploy? I need to research this.

#44 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:30 AM

Now I cant open my pms and stuff ..... Out rageous !! I think it may be from the tab toggle issue ? I ll see ...


My wife can open her's @ the flip of a hat!! :hitting_self_roller: :biting_nails: :tapping_fingers: :tapping_fingers: :biting_nails:
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#45 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 10:41 AM

OB, I agree. Although my short experience with ME was not a very good one, I also knew some that had a good experience but for the most part the majority could not wait to get rid of it. I personally think M$ just tried to get a last few $$$ out of the old DOS kernal and threw it together. If my memory serves me right it had a very short development and testing period. Didn't ME and Windows 2000 come out around the same time period?

Keith it would not surprise me if M$ wouldn't make you have a hot mail account but I haven't heard or seen any thing on it.




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