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#31 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2010 - 09:20 PM

Since this is a custom modified tractor I'd thought I'd try to improve the steering in trying to make it turn tighter. Since I won't be using any of the gas engine PTO attachments I want to try to max it out.

1st pic shows the problem with MF10s+12s right side tire clearance with the tiller gear box, probably the worst case scenario.

2nd pic shows the jack shaft used for the mower.

3rd pic shows 2 different front axles, top is late model bottom is early model.

4th show max. right turn angle possible with early axle, spindle hits the steering stop.

5th shows max. angle with late model axle and the steering stops removed. Steering box is maxed out hitting it's internal stop (lock to lock)

6+7 show lock to lock with late axle, 2 bolts on frame are the factory steering stops note different lengths, longer one is for right side.

It's hard to see in the pictures but there is an improvement, I'm sure if I spent more time making sure toe in+out were set right and the steering box was set for straight when in the middle of lock to lock the tractor would turn tighter than a factory stock one especially on right turns.

Attached Thumbnails

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  • jerryxw1 said thank you

#32 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2010 - 09:24 PM

Since this is a custom modified tractor I'd thought I'd try to improve the steering in trying to make it turn tighter. Since I won't be using any of the gas engine PTO attachments I want to try to max it out.

1st pic shows the problem with MF10s+12s right side tire clearance with the tiller gear box, probably the worst case scenario.

2nd pic shows the jack shaft used for the mower.

3rd pic shows 2 different front axles, top is late model bottom is early model.

4th show max. right turn angle possible with early axle, spindle hits the steering stop.

5th shows max. angle with late model axle and the steering stops removed. Steering box is maxed out hitting it's internal stop (lock to lock)

6+7 show lock to lock with late axle, 2 bolts on frame are the factory steering stops note different lengths, longer one is for right side.

It's hard to see in the pictures but there is an improvement, I'm sure if I spent more time making sure toe in+out were set right and the steering box was set for straight when in the middle of lock to lock the tractor would turn tighter than a factory stock one especially on right turns.

Wow, That is close to what we can get on a Forklift steer axle.

#33 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 06:08 PM

Thanks for the info Ducky. I know you do this for a living, and I really appreciate the input. I will let him know...but if he fixes it, I won't get to play with the hydraulics LOL. j/k I'll pass it along.

#34 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 07:20 PM

Only problem I see is that with that tight a geometry, the inside wheel may go over-center & lock on you without a stop block to prevent it.

#35 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 07:58 PM

Only problem I see is that with that tight a geometry, the inside wheel may go over-center & lock on you without a stop block to prevent it.


I was thinking that to, I should put them back in and set them to touch at the same point or just before, the steering box hits it's stop. Thanks for the input.

#36 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 08:29 PM

Thanks for the info Ducky. I know you do this for a living, and I really appreciate the input. I will let him know...but if he fixes it, I won't get to play with the hydraulics LOL. j/k I'll pass it along.


I'll let you and Hydiv lead the Hydraulic discussions.
You guys are on the mark when it come to this stuff.
If you guys every make a BOBO I will probably pipe in with my Humble Opinion.

#37 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 08:31 PM

Started trying to figure out the motor mount, look's like if I take a piece of 1/4" steel plate cut to fit, drill some holes in it, I can attach it to the side of the frame out of the way and the pulleys will line up. Need to get some pulleys and figure out the gearing.
Going to try with pulleys I have even if there off a bit before I buy any.
Looks like to me that when the Varidrive is in 5th or top speed the ratio is about 1 to 1. overall from the engine to the trany.
Gas engine turns 3600rpm max.
Electric motor spin rated at 5000rpm max.
So I think I have to gear it down a bit.
I believe the motor I have is series wound which means if you put 36volts to it with no load on, rpm's sky rocket and it will destroy itself which is why I decided to not have a clutch.

#38 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 09:08 PM

Started trying to figure out the motor mount, look's like if I take a piece of 1/4" steel plate cut to fit, drill some holes in it, I can attach it to the side of the frame out of the way and the pulleys will line up. Need to get some pulleys and figure out the gearing.
Going to try with pulleys I have even if there off a bit before I buy any.
Looks like to me that when the Varidrive is in 5th or top speed the ratio is about 1 to 1. overall from the engine to the trany.
Gas engine turns 3600rpm max.
Electric motor spin rated at 5000rpm max.
So I think I have to gear it down a bit.
I believe the motor I have is series wound which means if you put 36volts to it with no load on, rpm's sky rocket and it will destroy itself which is why I decided to not have a clutch.


Have you decided on a control system for that motor? If the motor can run up to 5000 RPMs @ 36 Volts that is a little faster than an HH120 would like to turn.

Not a problem, all we have to do is control the motor voltage/amperage and we now have speed control.

Voltage = RPMs
Amperage = Torque

Between the two motor speed and torque are controlled per accelerator input.
Any decent DC motor controller can do this. Be aware that these controllers are adjustable and you will need a Handset or computer w/software to do the adjustments that will make your motor and controller to play well together. I may be able to help here but I will need to know the make and model of the controller to know.
Just am reminder - DC motors have the same torque though there RPM range.
That means that if you are going 1 MPH or 15 MPH you will have the same power(Torque) at your drive tires.
Let me know if I can be of assistance.

#39 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2010 - 09:32 PM

No still have not decided on a controller yet, don't want to get any thing to complex, would like to get something simple, non programmable, something not needing a handset or computer to set up.
I have an old Cub car controller and wiring harness but unknown condition the fellow I got it from said he didn't know if it worked or how to wire it up, so it's basically for parts.
I also have a control panel from a 36 volt floor scrubber, lots of 36 volt solenoids with diodes across them.
The other problem with a controller is I need to be able to get it or have it shipped to me, this adds to the cost.
I have thought of just using 3 solenoids, and feed the motor 12, 24, 36 volts 3 steps??? But I think a controller is better.

Just need to be able to limit max. current and vary the speed.

#40 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 08:08 AM

No still have not decided on a controller yet, don't want to get any thing to complex, would like to get something simple, non programmable, something not needing a handset or computer to set up.
I have an old Cub car controller and wiring harness but unknown condition the fellow I got it from said he didn't know if it worked or how to wire it up, so it's basically for parts.
I also have a control panel from a 36 volt floor scrubber, lots of 36 volt solenoids with diodes across them.
The other problem with a controller is I need to be able to get it or have it shipped to me, this adds to the cost.
I have thought of just using 3 solenoids, and feed the motor 12, 24, 36 volts 3 steps??? But I think a controller is better.

Just need to be able to limit max. current and vary the speed.


Doug, There are controllers out there from older equipment that are non adjustable or use trim pots to change various out puts. Curtis again comes to mind as they are so common.
Any idea of the brand controllers in the cub car or the sweeper?
I would advise against the solenoid idea because is would discharge your batteries at different rate and shorten run time and battery life.
I solenoids would work using resistors to control the voltage drop across the motor. This way all the batteries would be used equally. Old Cushman and Taylor-Dunn carts used these systems. Then they graduated to the simpler Curtis controllers. Paper mills are a big buyer of this carts. Most of the time they are just thrown in the dumpster when they get to old. I would look for any of these or older walkie pallet trucks. All would have what you need.

#41 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 07:59 PM

This is what I have

1st pic control panel from the floor scrubber

2nd+3rd are the cub car controller

Attached Thumbnails

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#42 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 09:04 PM

The first pic doesn't appear to be a traction motor controller. I believe it was used to control the various motors that run the brushes, pumps and vacuum you find on sweeper/scrubbers.

The controller from the cart is a GE controller. I have never seen an EV 4 but have worked with EV 1s, 10s, and 100-200s. One thing about a the EV controllers is that GE used wire numbering common to all controllers. Yours appears to be color coded.
I will give Flight Systems a call Monday and see if I can get a control circuit schematic. Then we can wire it up temperately to verify it works.
Don't throw out that sweeper panel you will be using some of those contractors. Those two at the bottom of the pic are directional contractor you can use for forward/reverse control

Edited by ducky, August 20, 2010 - 09:10 PM.


#43 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 09:13 PM

Thanks Ducky, I searched the web for a wiring diagram for the controller and found nothing, the floor scrubber panel when I saw it knew the contractors would come in handy some day, paid $20. for it. Also bought 2 of the scrubbers motors, 3/4hp + 1hp, missed out on the 36 volt charger.

#44 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 09:27 PM

Ya, I tried that to.
I Have tons of service information on the other GE controller I mentioned. Worked with Hyster, Yale, Taylor-Dun, and Cushman for years. amazing how that stuff can pile up. You just know that you will need that someday.:confuse: Thank goodness I am getting it stored in electronic form. That paper really piles up.
Also have all the service information on Curtis as well.
If you do come across an older Curtis before SEPEX consider it if the price is right.

#45 DH1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2010 - 09:40 PM

Thought you might get a laugh from this. I got this motor from the same guy as the club car controller, paid $400. They retail for $2500 you can buy them new for about $1500.
At 120 volts 20hp continuous and 85hp peak.
At 144 volts 28.5hp continuous and 100hp peak. (it does have a 144 volt rating)
Motor weights about 150lbs.

Where do I put the Battery's?

I got this in the hopes of some day converting a car to electric.

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