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Trying To Fix Simplicity Hydro...again

please help 3416

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#1 Horvik OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2012 - 05:40 PM

Hey;

I am at wits end with why this hydro is giving me fits on the 3416 H simplicity.

The hydro used to have good speed forward and reverse, but now it lags in those respects. Removed play in linkage, replaced the fluid, filter in the Vickers unit.
Any ideas as to how to fix it? Getting ready for the snow.

This is the third post on same subject, maybe this time someone will respond.

Thanks

#2 Rock farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2012 - 06:05 PM

I've got the same tractor.
But, I never had any problems with the hydro drive.
Wish I could help.

Joe

#3 massey driver ONLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2012 - 06:20 PM

Are both the push/neutral valves all the way up.

#4 Horvik OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2012 - 06:59 PM

Are both the push/neutral valves all the way up.


Hey;

Can you explain what the push / neutral valves on the Vickers are and how it is related ? I am interested in learning so that I can fix the darn thing.

Thanks

#5 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 01, 2012 - 05:07 PM

Are both the push/neutral valves all the way up.


Can you explain what the push / neutral valves on the Vickers are and how it is related ?...
Thanks


Hello, Horvik. Not sure what happened to Massey Driver, but here are two photo's showing the push / neutral lever on my HB112. Not sure where yours is, but this will give you a starting point. The lever puts the transmission into neutral so you can push the tractor without damaging anything. If it is in the neutral position, you would get similar symptoms to what you are describing. You might also get that result if you have an air bubble in the system.

Hydro lever - Drive.JPG Hydro lever - push.JPG

#6 massey driver ONLINE  

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Posted November 01, 2012 - 05:52 PM

I believe the valves on yours are under the seat on the left hand side.If there stuck down you'll have problems they like to get sticky due to getting crud etc around them.You have to keep that pretty clean.I'am having some computer problems so I'll try and post some pics later Larry

#7 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted November 01, 2012 - 06:17 PM

I also think yours has unloader valves as Larry said. They are like large nuts 1" wide, with tiny 3/16" buttons sticking from their centers....two of them. They should be sticking up at least 1/8". If not, and they don't pop up after starting the tractor, then they are sticking & need to come out & apart to clean them up till they work freely.

#8 massey driver ONLINE  

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Posted November 01, 2012 - 07:41 PM

I had a write up in here about freeing up the poppet valves if there stuck in.I couldn't find it but here's some pics of the valves removed from the hydro that I was able to free up by drilling into the valve [don't drill to deep less then 1/4"] using a small tap I was able to thread in a screw /bolt and I was able to pull the poppet back up.It takes some patience but it'll save you having to buy a new valve and there $$$$.If yours are stuck down you'll have to do this or your hydro will not work.There's no way to push them up from the back because of the check ball and spring.I was able to grab the screw/bolt head by placing it in a vise and slowly tap on the valve to extend the poppet.Liberal amounts of penetraing oil as well.Once I had them pulled out I just kept working them in and out untill the were free and popped out on there own as they are spring loaded .Hope these pics will help you if this is your problem.Larry

Attached Thumbnails

  • freeing poppet valve 002 (Small).jpg
  • freeing poppet valve 003 (Small).jpg
  • freeing poppet valve 001 (Small).jpg
  • freeing poppet valve 004 (Small).jpg
  • freeing poppet valve 005 (Small).jpg

Edited by massey driver, November 01, 2012 - 07:46 PM.

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#9 achomesteader OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2012 - 06:09 AM

Sorry I can't help you fix your problems with your Vickers, but I believe that Larry and Daniel are thinking about a Sundstrand unit when they mention the poppet valves/unloader valves being stuck.

The Vickers unit has no valves that can be pushed in to enable the tractor to be moved when it's not running. Instead it has a gear shift to disengage the transmission from the rear axle. The gear shift works opposite of the one on the HB-112 shown in New.Canadian.DB.Owner's post above.

Posted Image

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#10 Rock farmer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2012 - 10:51 AM

That gear shift lever is what my 3416 H has.
It doesn't move much. But, it does engage /dis-engage the drive.

Joe

#11 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2012 - 11:10 AM

Thanks for correcting us Greg. I wasn't sure if they were a later model Vickers on these models, as I've never been around this model tractor.
I have owned an Allis 416H with this same Vickers, but never had any trouble with it at all, other than leaky rock shaft seals, so I'm not versed on what may be the problem.
Did this problem arise on it's own, or after changing the oil? What type oil did you use? Once starting after filling with oil, did you top the oil back off? They usually they drop level some.

#12 massey driver ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2012 - 12:14 PM


The Vickers unit has no valves that can be pushed in to enable the tractor to be moved when it's not running. Instead it has a gear shift to disengage the transmission from the rear axle.


I'am glad you chimed in and educated me about that model.Larry

#13 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted December 08, 2012 - 11:55 AM

The gear shift works opposite of the one on the HB-112 shown in New.Canadian.DB.Owner's post above.


Yes, it does ... Sometimes I miss the obvious and it isn't until life smacks me upside the head that I see the forest. I have no excuse for this one. I missed the giant placard right beside the lever.

Tow drive placard smaller.jpg

What drove that home was a quick peek inside the hole where the hydro meshes with the transmission.

Tow drive linkage - broken.jpg

It should look like this:

GearCase-DownSized-52.2kb.jpg

I think someone backed into something & snapped the shift stem. I have found it, but I think I may still be missing a ball & spring. I think I'll add a spacer to keep that from happening again ...

Tow drive link removed.jpg

Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, December 08, 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#14 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted December 10, 2012 - 08:39 PM

I replaced the shift stem (AN) today. Made a replacement out of a bolt (5/16"-24 x 1"). Stuck the bolt in the drill press & shaped it with a grinder. On my second attempt at installing it through the hydro hole, I dropped the stem into the transmission. Had to split it to get it back. Yes, you can split the transmission with it still on the tractor, but you do need to support the tractor under the BGB & to remove the break & right wheel. Be very careful & go slow so you don't tear the gasket (AB). I worked my way around with a thin putty knife as the case separated & was able to save the gasket. You'll also want to clean up the axle tube (T) & brake shaft (G) before you split the case so the oil seals don't rip. If you are looking for the ball (AK) & spring (AJ), they are in the shift fork (AH), under the shifter shaft (AF). Putting it back together was harder: there are two roll pins ( C ) , one in the upper right & another in the lower left. They will fight you when you split the case, & frustrate the h*** out of you when you try to put it back together.

88094-Simplicity 3012 HB-112 Hydrostatic_Page_20.jpg 88094-Simplicity 3012 HB-112 Hydrostatic_Page_21.jpg

split 1.jpg split 2.jpg

I almost forgot: I clipped 6 coils off of the spring to get a balance between easy shifting & not bouncing out of gear. The stock spring was way to stiff.

Edited by New.Canadian.DB.Owner, December 10, 2012 - 09:22 PM.

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