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Case 222 Hydrolic help!!!!!


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#1 allenmiller2310 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 02:13 PM

:confuse: I have a Case 1973 model 222 serial#9690242 that came stock with the 12hp Kohlert hat has been severly modified for doing tractor pulls. The hydrolic pump, motor valce body and such are still all original.The motor is the only thing that has been changed. I pulled before in the 900lb. class on black top about 6 times and it did phenomenal every time. Before I competed in the latest pull in the 1050lb.class I was pulling a 12,000lb forklift up hill and spining the tires with ease. The eliminator is about the same to pull as the forklift. When pulling the eliminator I noticed a great reduction in torque and was only able to move the sled about 10ft. The hydro fluid was passing by somewhere making a squealing noise. Is there some kind of adjustment on the valve bank, hydro motor, or some kind of upgrade that anyone knows about to help me with. I am in desperate need of advise do to the next pull being a month away........Help me somebody!!

Edited by allenmiller2310, August 02, 2010 - 06:22 PM.
missed info


#2 ducky ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 02:51 PM

There are a few variables here between the forklift and eliminator to look at.
The first is the eliminator will get progressively heavier on the pan as it goes down the track.
Second would be the height and length of the chain were it attaches the the device being towed. Considering your hitch height remains the same on the tractor the height of the hook to the device being towed and the length of the chain will affect the amount of weight transferred to your drawbar.
I believe you may be getting far better weight transfer from the sled than you are getting from your hook the the forklift.
There are a lot of Case guy out here that can better relate to capabilities of the drive system on that tractor. The squealing would be related to fluid passing over the relief valve to protect the system from damage.

#3 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 05:21 PM

Not enough information.

You have an early 70's 222 that came with a 12 hp Kohler K engine in it. What mods have been made to the engine? What mods have been made to the hydraulic system? Did you build this unit or did someone else? Have you pulled with it at a competition previously? If so, then in what weight class and how well did you tractor do?

I can't help you unless I know the answers to these questions because you're there and I'm not.

Edited by hydriv, August 02, 2010 - 07:24 PM.


#4 allenmiller2310 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 06:24 PM

I have updated the information for you. If you have anyother questions please contact me directly if you are willing so I can answer your questions in real time to simplify things.

#5 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 07:23 PM

:confuse: I have a Case 1973 model 222 serial#9690242 that came stock with the 12hp Kohlert hat has been severly modified for doing tractor pulls. The hydrolic pump, motor valce body and such are still all original.The motor is the only thing that has been changed. I pulled before in the 900lb. class on black top about 6 times and it did phenomenal every time. Before I competed in the latest pull in the 1050lb.class I was pulling a 12,000lb forklift up hill and spining the tires with ease. The eliminator is about the same to pull as the forklift. When pulling the eliminator I noticed a great reduction in torque and was only able to move the sled about 10ft. The hydro fluid was passing by somewhere making a squealing noise. Is there some kind of adjustment on the valve bank, hydro motor, or some kind of upgrade that anyone knows about to help me with. I am in desperate need of advise do to the next pull being a month away........Help me somebody!!


Ok.... this might be too simple but I have to ask. Are you absolutely positive that you were in LO RANGE when you made that pull?

The reason I ask is because you are telling us that you can hear squealing. The only time a hydraulic system squeals is when the relief valve is forced open. So, either you are in the wrong range on the trans-axle or perhaps you have broken the spring in the relief valve. Since you don't have any background in hydraulics, I am not all that keen to have you start messing around with the relief valve when you don't even own the tools needed to set the relief pressure properly once you have inspected the spring.

Before we go any further with this, you need to hook up to that forklift again and make sure your trans-axle is in low range. If the tractor still does not pull, then you are going to have to order a guage, some hose and fittings to conduct a test.

#6 allenmiller2310 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 07:25 PM

yes i was in low range I had also talked with the service man at service motor company and he does not think that my model has a relief valve. But i swear that is wat it sounds like but i dont know where it is located. as for doing the test i have a friend who has all the tools to do it the proper way

#7 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 09:19 PM

OK... maybe that guy you talked to is a real engine guru but he knows nothing about hydraulic systems because all systems have relief valves in them to protect the pump from exploding.

So, now it's time for you to learn about your tractor's hydraulic system.

Go to INGERSOLL

Click on "product lines" and then on "attachments" . On the right side, click on the X of the green bar that says "Compact Tractors - manual steering". Scroll down and find the model number that matches your tractor along with the serial number spread that contains your PIN. That would be the third one down, I believe. Click on it and the PDF will open for you. Scroll down to PDF page 27 and blow the page up to 100 percent or more. If you have implement lift on your tractor, then that's the travel/lift valve that is on your tractor. Item 2 is the spool that controls the oil flow to your drive motor. This spool moves in and out of the cast iron valve body you see in the pictorial.


Items 6, 7, 22, 23, 24 and 25 all make up the relief valve for the motor spool. As you can see, it is a very simple device. Inside the valve body is a concave "seat" with a hole in it. That hole gets sealed by the ball bearing Item 6. Item 7 is the spring that pushes item 22 against the other side of the ball bearing and forces it against the concave seat to stop oil from passing out of the hole and back to the reservoir. Sometimes these springs do break or get weak and don't do their job. Item 23 is the screw-type adjuster that allow you to increase or decrease the amount of spring pressure exerted on the ball and items 24 and 25 are the washer and acorn nut to lock the screw-adjuster down to keep it from moving once the relief has been set.

Now find item 21. This is the drain plug for the system but the hole it plugs is also the test port used to figure out what's going on in the hydraulic system.

You MUST clean out the hex shaped hole in this plug 100 percent. Not 50% or 90%.. 100%. Then use a 3/8" drive Allen key socket that is driven solidly into the drain plug to remove it. Listen carefully. You get ONE shot removing this plug. If your wrench spins inside the hex plug, you will strip it and then you're screwed. There's no second chances here.

If your buddy knows hydraulics, then he'll have a glycerin-filled pressure guage that reads zero to 5000 PSI and he'll have all the fittings needed to connect that guage to this test port. Chain the tractor to something solid. With the guage in place, start the tractor and allow everything to warm up, especially the oil. The sit on the tractor, put it in high range, open the throttle to full rpm and push the travel lever forward while your friend watches the guage. When the squealing begins, he should see 2100 PSI on the guage.

If the pressure is half that amount, then relief should be dismantled and inspected.

#8 allenmiller2310 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2010 - 09:47 PM

Thank you so very much but I have one more question for you where is the relief valve located and how do you adjust it to increase presure and how do you adjust it to decrease pressure?? Can I increase the pressure over the recomended amount? I know it is ill advised do to safety and breakage but that is a risk I am willing to take.

#9 hydriv OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2010 - 01:45 AM

Excuse me but that's four questions, not one. :D:D:D:D

If you read my previous post carefully, I told you that the relief valve is located in the travel/lift valve body and that the relief pressure setting is adjusted by screwing Item 23 in or out to change the amount of force the spring exerts on the ball. The travel/lift valve is located under the checker plate floor, in front of the seat pedestal.

The normal setting would be 2100 PSI but if you want to raise that to 2500 psi, that's OK. I don't know if you have put your engine on a dyno or not nor have you disclosed whether you are actually running the 10 hp block or a 16 hp block plus all the mods. I have no idea how new your pump is either because pumps do wear and as they wear they get less and less efficient which means that they no longer produce as much pressure and flow as they did when they were new. So for argument's sake, let say that the pump you have is rated to produce 3000 PSI tops but it's badly worn. You might put the test guage on there and find that all you are getting is 1200 PSI out of the pump. So, you take the relief apart thinking that the spring is broken or weak. You find that the spring is not broken so now you conclude that it's a weak spring and you order a new one and install it only to find that no matter how much you tighten the relief down, you still can't get more than 1200 psi.

The logical conclusion would be that the pump needs to be replaced. And that would be true even if the max PSI you could get was 1900 PSI. HOWEVER.... because you tell me you hear this squealing sound.....that indicates that the pump is producing enough pressure to force the relief ball off its seat so let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Have your friend hook onto the test port and check the max oil pressure the pump is making right now without touching anything else. We need to figure out why your tractor suddenly won't pull like it used to. ONE STEP AT A TIME... OK?

#10 ducky ONLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2010 - 09:19 AM

I think I would get your buddy to flow that pump at 2100 psi to either condemn or eliminate it from the equation. If it does not flow at rate then you are in line for a new pump. A slip of 10% would be excepable becuase you will never use full pump flow with the traction under full load. Again this depends on how much HP you can put in it.
Be careful with the gate valve thought. It is easy to break a good pump if it is deadheaded (Gate valve completely closed).
I like to have a relief in parallel with the gate just to be on the safe side.

#11 allenmiller2310 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2010 - 10:29 AM

Thanks guys!! The motor that is in it is a 13hp block ordered right from Techumseh It is a high performance motor with cam crank bored ect. and it runs Alcohol the motor makes bout 28hp now new it was 32 but it has a quite a bit of wear on it though. I also went from a horizontal shaft to a vertical to save space under the hood for weights and other electrical componets. The redline on my motor is about 6300rpmbut i do not spin the pump that fast. To turn the pump lower i have put in a chain n sprocket system to reduce the spped and gain more torque on the motor.Hopefully that gives you guys a little better idea of how it is set up. I really appreciate all your help and I will test the pressure before anything is changed sometime today. Hopefully I can pin point the problem and eliminate it instead of putting a band aid on it by just tightening the relief spring and wishing for the best.




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