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#1 scarecrow1990 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2012 - 10:30 PM

I am really getting into the sport of garden tractor pulling, so i bought a john deere 212? belt drive of course. I started looking at the rule books and you cant have a streched tractor and compete in stock class I come to find out. (the one i bought is streched with a john deere 955 hood on it.) So I got to thinking. Now I have a couple questions.

1) Will a stock shaft drive rear end for like a 318 or 400 John Deere, Will it hold up for a slightly modified diesel engine? If not what will I need?

2) Could I keep the belt drive and put like a 30 horse horizontal shaft diesel on it? Or would it smoke the belts?

Like I said I am just getting into this so any adivce would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Lucas

#2 Newpaws493 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2012 - 11:05 PM

Scarecrow, I'm goin 0 for 2 on advice, but sendin a BIG :welcometogttalk: One of the guys that knows about such things is bound to stop by and help you along. Meanwhile, enjoy the forum, warm up yer camera and thanks for joining up!

#3 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 12:17 AM

Welcome to the forums Scarecrow! I can do what I can to help with your questions but sadly im not a deere fan lol but I work with diesels so let me help a bit.

Question 1. I know some people use cub cadet rearends in their john deere's to handle the abuse in pulling and especially in the diesel application. STOCK PARTS cannot handle the toque especially if the engine has been modified.
Question 2. Do you have something similiar to a 30hp diesel? As said in my question/response 1. you would want to use a geared rearend because of the torque and abuse it will be handling. The pure size of the motor "i'm assuming ou have a kubota?" is fairly large especially if you turn it to the side to run your belts which in this case MIGHT smoke the belts and possiable rip your tranny in peices unless its a small hp motor. Ive never seen this done so maybe someone with jd knowledge could help me? :confuse:
I'm hoping this has helped a bit and someone with the DEERE knowledge can help me lol but welcome to the community!! Hope you enjoy your stay and keep us updated with PICS!!! :thumbs:
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#4 mjodrey OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 05:00 AM

scarecrow,just wanted to welcome you to the forum.Glad to have you with us.

#5 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 07:16 AM

Welcome to GTTalk Scarecrow. I'm no expert but I think the only JD rear end that could qualify for that application is the Dana that is in the later 140's and early 300 series up to the 317. It was only used in the hydro powered tractors. Most GT drive trains were never designed to handle the kind of torque a 30+hp diesel can produce.
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#6 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 07:24 AM

You know you could return it to stock form.

#7 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 08:36 AM

Scarecrow: I don't know much about GT pulling so take this with a grain of salt.
But your on the right track by getting the rulebooks for the pulling organizations pulling in your area.
The rules can vary quite a lot from one club to the next, and you want to be legal at the tracks you will run.
Talk to pullers in your area and get their input.
It would not be wise to pour a ton of money into a machine, just to discover it cannot be run on the track.
Or with the mods you have made it has to compete against machnes that totally outclass it, because they bump you up a class.
With a stretched chassis, I'm guessing you would have to run at least Super Stock but more likely a Modified class which is very competetive and expensive(unlimited funding) and the guys you would be pulling against will have many years of experience.
Those same guys will be a wealth of info as to what works and does not.They have probably spent their hard earned dollars trying it and proved what does and does not work..

As far as putting a 30 hp Diesel in the chassis, there is an old hotrodders adage("with a cutting torch and a welder you can put anything in anything"). That does not always work well( I remeber a Dodge Hemi in a 58 Mercury that was not one of my better ideas) but it can be done. I don't think your going to find a hydrostatic, that would be sucessful in a class your going to have to run with a stretched chassis.

Edited by JD DANNELS, September 05, 2012 - 08:40 AM.

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#8 scarecrow1990 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 11:04 AM

Thanks everyone. I also have a cub cadet its a 106 model its going to be my girlfriends tractor but were not going to crazy with that (i think were going to go hot stock maybe even just stock class) I have discovered that even with a diesel I can pull against the gas motors in the super stock classes. There is a cubic inch limit but I can adjust the setup per the rules. Thats the good news.

Something I have no Idea about is;

Can you take the pump off of a hydrostatic rear end and just use it like a manual shaft driven rear end? Or is there more too it then just taking the hydraulic pump off of it?

And If I can run a Cub rear end how much power can I run through it? I know that there are companies that make really quality performance ugrades for them but I have never found any kind of power rating for them.

And on the other hand since it is in super stock class if they wont let me run a cub rear end, I think that they have to be true to the OEM manufacturer. Meaning if I have a John Deere I can run any shaft driven Deere rear end. What is the best rear end for the application? Also what tractors did they come out of so I know a model number to look for!

ALSO THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THAT TOOK THE TIME TO REPLY TO HELP ME OUT.

#9 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 12:08 PM

Well I can tell you right now but you might not be happy with it lol..If your serious with running that diesel I'd put it in a cub. Simply because everything lines up and you already have a great rearend to work with. YOU WONT BE ABLE TO USE STOCK PARTS WITH A DIESEL. Now just like a ss or stock altered you will have to put some money into it. The minimum amount I have in mine is $10,000 so you figure the numbers.

Question 1. Hydros are really worth the hassle because use up quite a bit of power to run and not quite sure if those pumps will handle it or not.

Question 2. Cub rearends are essential if you want to get into something like this and heres why.

Answer 1. You would need a good strong driveline. I run a 5 puck disc in mine and it seems to hold all those horses well. You also would need a heavy spring for the drive line. Its either the red or yellow spring.
Now the most expensive part. The tranny. You would need...1.A hardened top shaft so your stock one doesnt twist to hell and back lol. 2. A good gear cluster because stock cub rearends have a wierd gear ratio such as "1st=13 2nd=19 3rd=26" What I did with those was I bought 2 sets of gears to run with those. I picked 22 for first gear.24 for my second gear and left 26 alone because if you run out of power in the first round lets say and if you have to drop a gear youll more than likely be under the turbo the whole and thus out of power again so by dropping an extra gear youll hold your power more effciently. Youll also need a good ring and pinion set. I currently have a full Midwest super cub spool which will handle the power of that diesel very nicely"just not recommended dumping the clutch lol" and you might want to get a heavy duty ring gear from midwest so that way you wont keep blowing ring gears all the time. And finally you want a good over driver to go along with your gears. I cant give away what size over driver I have but its got some huge numbers lol :p So your best bet would be to start out with a 23% and work your way up..

Hopefully this has been somewhat helpful in almost everyway lol.Ive been pulling for many years and with the diesel classes starting up youll never want to go back to the gas engines for awhile and I wish you and your team the best of luck building her :smile1: Dont forget to add pics of the builds we all would love to check it out!

#10 scarecrow1990 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 12:48 PM

Dieselcubmike, are you running a cub 2 cylinder diesel or are you running a kubota 3 cyl? There is nobody around here that pulls diesels, So I want to do something different. I am going to message you with any further questions I have becuase you know what your doing and I could do it with a little help.

So I figured out I am going to run a Cub rear end, becuase it doesnt have to be OEM spesific.

I think I am going to run a 3 cylinder kubota or yanmar out of a skid steer.......AS ALWAYS I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!!

I cant figure out how to put pictures in my post. lol I am not very good with technology.. So any information with that would be appreciated.

Thanks again

Lucas
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#11 scarecrow1990 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 12:52 PM

IMG_20120904_144340.jpg

IMG_20120905_110851.jpg

IMG_20120905_110922.jpg

IMG_20120905_111105.jpg

Just kidding I think I figured it out this is the John Deere that I am going to start with.......

No telling how much money Ill have in it but hey its all in good fun!!

Thanks

Lucas

#12 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 01:10 PM

Lol all is good friend. I run a kubota 3 cyl d-1105 which is rated at 26hp with about 22lbs of boost. This is what this community is all about. Tractors and friends sharing a common place to do both :smile1: I like how everything looks streched out you could almost fit a hiyabusa motor under it lol

#13 scarecrow1990 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 01:56 PM

yeah Ill start off by saying by no means am I a Deere fan, haha but kind of ironic. I picked this one out becuase it was streched and I figured if I am going to build one this one had enough space under the hood to do plenty of mods.

I actually thought about doing that but I wasnt quite sure if a 90 degree gear box would hold a 1300 and secondly I would have to put a narrowed rearend under it and I have not a clue how to narrow one and everyone that I have called wants a pretty penny to do one.

And secondly I was wondering. Where do you find after maket parts for these small diesels. do you just have to have them all machined at a shop? Or is there a place that you can go online to look and see what all that you can get?

Also what kind of wiring is involved is there a brain box that I will need? and what else am I getting into?

thanks again

Lucas

Edited by scarecrow1990, September 05, 2012 - 01:59 PM.

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#14 baerpath OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 06:47 PM

Couple things I'd ask about before going farther. What classes would the streached frame and diesel be okay in ? Do you have to use a GT rear or not ?

If it's okay
I'd scrap the rear in it and find a 71/4 Chrysler from a Panzer and bolt that in for the rear. Drop the motor in and use a trans from an Economy and a clutch from either Lakota or Vogel. and the mounts from a cub. As for the gearing if you overlap the rear input and the shaft from the cluth , you can run sprockets with 60 chain and adjust easily.That way your using all garden tractor parts also.

Duane

#15 Dieselcubmike OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2012 - 09:01 PM

Lol its all good I wasnt sure if i was offending a deere fan or not. You really dont need a shortened rearend if your serious about the build and you want a good rearend I know someone that builds planetaries I think the last price I heard was 2000$? I just have the stock rearend with some expensive parts in and it holds very well.

And for your question with the aftermarket parts. Are you asking about the engine performance parts? Vogel manufacturing specializes in cam grindings and COLUMBUS DIESEL is famous for all their engine work for diesels. They can take care of pump work and all sorts of stuff. And I had Iceman motorsportsmake my flywheel for me. But remember with all this There's alot of money being spent here. Most people would use a yanmar motor and have about 20-25k just in their engine but if do youtube searches of prostock diesels at columbus and youll see all that money being spent lol thats where the big boys play at.

As far as the wiring part goes im not too entirely sure. I could have my father help with that part if needed he did all the wiring cause I know nothing about it lol..There's more things that you might be involved in I would just need your questions lol Hopefully this has helped! Help me out by thanking my posts so that it shows it did! :thumbs:

Edited by Dieselcubmike, November 17, 2012 - 03:43 PM.

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