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David Bradley Continental Engines


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#1 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:04 AM

So we don't Hyjack the other thread i thought I would start a new one.

It seems that after reading some more, there were some other Continental Engines used on the DB's.

For the record the David Bradley engines i know about or have are as follow
1) AU7 127.100A and B 1.6 hp model 56
2) AU7 127.101A and B 2.3 hp model 561 prior to June of 1952
3) AU7 127.102 1.8 hp model 56 late * see note below
4) AU8 127.300 2.25hp
5) Au85 127.400 3.0 hp tillotston carb MT35A model 71, 84
6) AU85 127.450 3.0 hp Carter carb, 97, 104, 105, 131

* there are still questions on the 1.8 hp continental but as it appears right now the engine is for a model 56 late tractor . according to the sears manual this is 1.8 hp . Sears in there web site had concluded that this is 3.0 hp for the 71 tractor.

There was also a 127.100 for the 56 tractor.

Edited by Amigatec, September 01, 2012 - 08:19 AM.

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#2 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:34 AM

History of the Continental block Thanks to Ron Bolden of QM3 for providing this information.

In the beginning, Continental had two basic blocks, one for the vertical shaft and one for the horizontal shaft engines. The vertical shaft engine block drawing is AA7-B-603. This had a 5 bolt head. From 1947 through 1954 this drawing had gone through Rev. "Z". It was re- drawn in Feb. 1954, and the last revision was made 5-27-57, Rev. # "AC". It was obsoleted in 1957.

The horizontal shaft engine block was originally on drawing AA7-B- 600. This too had a 5 bolt head, and the flywheel side of the block had a hole, approximately 2" in diameter, similar to today's block machined for a side bearing adapter. This casting was introduced in 1947 and was replaced by drawing AA7-B-603 in 1950 and this casting's design had the stator plate mounting bosses on the flywheel side of the block, but it was still a 5 bolt cylinder head. That casting also called for part number AA7-B-527 to be cast on the inside of the block. In 1952 that casting was revised for a 7 bolt head, which replaced the 5 bolt head in 1953 model engines. in 1954, the basic AA7-B-603/AA7-B-527 casting was replaced by a whole new casting, AA7- B-611.

The AA7-B-611 casting is the "Continental" block you are most familiar with. But this casting could have had part numbers AA7-B- 611, AA7-B-532, or AA7-B-548 cast onto it. So the same basic casting had 3 possible numbers on it. AA7-B-611 was the basic casting number. AA7-B-532 was cored for a cylinder bore of 2 1/8" to 2 1/4". The AA7- B-548 casting was cored for a 2 5/16" bore. This was done for less metal. removal in the machining process as Continental produced 3 bore sizes, and 59 block configurations out of this same block.

Now to date your block is a little more difficult. If your Continental block has AA7-B-532, AA7-B-548, or AA7-B-611, it was made sometimes after 1953. The letter "C" on the block stands for Clio Foundry. The other letter stands for the revision date. But it's not that simple either. The number AA7-B-532 was cast on 2 different blocks. The basic AA7-B-611 (2-7-55) and an older block AA7-B-603, (used on a vertical shaft engine), and that dates from 2-2-54. So the revision dates alone are not enough to date your block. You'll need a description of the revisions. So heres the significant revisions and their dates. Keep in mind after the drawing revision was made it took approximately 6 months for that revision to be incorporated into production models.

Rev. "B" 5-27-57 Port size under the valve seat changed from 3/4" to .807/.812". That may be machined "out" in your block, so you can't tell. Rev. "C" 11-15-57 There were 22 changes made to the block under this revision and most of those changes were revised again under revision "H" and "K", see below. The changes you may be able to identify is the thickness of the exhaust flange, changed from 23/32" to 29/32", the addition of the backplate mounting boss at the back of the block close to the pan face toward the flywheel side of the block, and the other significant change was the addition of 2 bosses inside the block that the ignition plate bolted into. So if you exhaust flange thickness was not altered, the backplate mounting boss is missing, and those two plate mounting bosses are not inside your block, your block pre-dates 1958 and it would be safe to say it was produced between 1954-1957.

Rev. "F" 4-22-58. There were 13 changes made under this revision. Most of these changes pertained to the bosses and holes on the top of the block where the ignition plate mounts. It might be tough to identify a block with this revision but the mounting plate changed from a round plate to elongated plate and therefore 2 # 10-24 tapped holes were removed and a 1/4-20 tapped hole was added

Rev. "G" 12-24-58 The two valve spring bosses were added inside the tappet box chamber, not identifiable today if you have guides installed.

Rev. "H" 1-29-60 Go back to revision "C" Those two bosses added to the inside of the block for the ignition mounting plate holes, the height of those bosses was increased from 5/16" to 7/16".

Rev. "J" 2-7-62 This famous revision was a Material change only. The original material specified was S.A.E. 120 Cast Iron Alloy with a base composition of 0.40 Chromium and 0.25 Molybdenum. Revision "J" changed this to: 2.20 - 2.55 Silicon, .55 -.75 Manganese, .130 Max. Sulphur, .300 Max. Phosphorus, and 3.30 - 3.55 Total Carbon.

Rev. "K" 2-7-62 The exhaust flange thickness was increased from 27/32" (see Rev.C) to 1 1/32".

Rev. "L" 5-23-62 The exhaust flange thickness was changed again, from 1 1/32" (see Rev K) to 1.00".

Rev "M" 11-12-63 Last revision made by Continental, which were simply adding dimensions from the centerline of the cylinder bore to the radii dimensions of the stator plate mounting bosses.

These revision letters and explanation of the changes, this may help you history buffs date your Continental block somewhere between 1954 and 1970 when Deco Grand had new patterns made with the number AA7-B- 700S cast on the back. By the way, Deco Grand went up to Revision "W" between 6-7-71 and 7-9-90 including another material change to "Meehanite Alloy". But at least they dated their blocks. We will date and assign a serial number to our blocks. Hope this helps.
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#3 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:40 AM

Block casting used by Continental were 603 for the AU7s up until 1952 when they went to a seven bolt head , this would include 127100s 127101s The points were located under the flywheel on these engines and the also used two types of magnetos .

If your engine number was followed by the letter A it had a Wico magneto. If your number was followed by the letter B it had a Phelon magneto system.

Au7 127102 1.8 hp BLOCK AA7B 527 this engine had its own casting number however it still had a 5 bolt head . This AU7 differed from the other Au7s. As it had the context ignition system with the points located up on top of the engines which either sported an Armstrong or Fairbanks-Morse Point cap this would carry over into the next and the rest of the block castings for the rest of the production run

Block casting for the AU8 Continental had 2 possible casting numbers. The first Au8 127-300 Casting number was AA7B 532 , this was also the beginning of the 7 bolt head Next they went AA7B 548 And both engines were bored to 2.25" This could be confusing because you know had 3 possible blocks for for 1 tractor 91757561 127101 casting #AA7B 603 rated 2.3 hp 127-300 block casting AA7B 532 and late production Au8 127-300 had a block casting AA7B 548 .
Now Continental went to a 3 hp design for the super 3 engine , However they stayed with the AA7B 548 block but this block was bored to 2 5/16 same block different bore size also the cranshaft was beefed up a little and pto size of the crankshaft was now at 3/4 otherwise it was the same crank and the connecting rod was still the same carburetion was bigger piston size was increased. to gain in hp.
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#4 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:42 AM

Our David Bradley engines used 3 different manufactures carburetors.

All Au7s had Zenith type Carburetors. There were 3 different Au7s And each carburetor Had a Different number but externally the looked the same. I know of no Available source of repair parts for these Carburetors...

The Au8 blocked used a Tillotston carburetor This Carburetor was Tillotston MT 25A ........ The first Au85s used Tillotston as well 2 tractors 91757571, and the 91757584 The first 2 Au85s used a Tillotston MT35A

Parts for Tillotston for now Can be ordered from phil Brown at PMbrown141@... right now hes the only one i know who can get carb kits for these Tillotston Carbs. Then Starting With the model 917575 97 tractor Au85s used a Carter Carburetor Model N , Parts can be found at most lawn and garden shops , by ordering either genuine Kolher N Carter parts or for a little cheaper money you can by generic parts offer by all the main players in the after market parts business such as Rotary, Primeline, Stens, and Fredrick.
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#5 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:44 AM

Our David Bradley used 3 types of ignition systems.

Depending on your Tag number starting with Au7 127100A and 127101A.

If your engine tag number ended in A use wico points and condenser # point and condenser set part # X-7572. Now if your AU7 has a B after the 6 numbers 127-100B or 127101B you used Phelon parts the phelon part numbers are conndenser #FG-458G Points FG-626

Next came Au7 127102 Au8127300 and Au85s127400 and 127450 these engines all used points no longer under the flywheel all used the same part so if you have the plastic governor cap no matter what model they all used the same same points and condensor, the part number is this points AA7M-2990 condenser AA7M-2980.
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#6 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:49 AM

I have found there are 3 possible continental engines for the 561 tractor (this wont include the briggs engine found on some)

The First 561 tractor had the ball governor engine that looked like the 56 engine except it had different throttle linkage hook up and the engine was grey. It has a casting number stamped into the block AA7B- 603 the tag number reads 127-101A it has a Wico magneto with the points located under the flywheel. this engine has 2.3 hp . This engine was produced until June of 1952 .

Starting in June of 1952 they came out with a new design and a totally new block . this is the engine we are use to seeing . It has the black point cap /governor up on top of the engine. This engine was used after June of 1952 until around 1953. the casting number on this block was AA7B-532.
The engine tag #127-300 now onto the third engine. This looked to be the same engine and is really however theres a different casting number , AA7B-548 this engine was bored at the factory for what ever they needed at the factory, it had 3 possible bore sizes. For the AU8 it was bore to 2.1/4 for the super powers, the tag number remained the same 127- 300...... this would help you to possible date your 561 as well. i don't know what the series numbers were where they switched from one engine to the other , I can say this, my series 111 came with the 127-101A my series 139 came with 127-101A my series 255 came with a AA7b-532 block casting , I have the au8 with the casting Number AA7B- 548 127-300 which would make it a high series number.
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#7 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:55 AM

The earliest reference I could find to David Bradley in Continentals records is for a AU7 Spec No. 78A. This David Bradley engine was built to Continentals Basic AU7 Spec "A" which Continentals records show being issued on April 1, 1950, with exceptions for David Bradley. I do not have the original release date for the David Bradley AU7 Spec 78A, but the "rewritten" date is Nov 28, 1950. I can be concluded that this David Bradley spec. the 127-100, must have been released between April and November 1950, perhaps in July 1950, see next engine. This engine was painted black.

The Second reference to David Bradley is for the 127-101. This was Continental's AU7B Spec 322A which was built to the Continental AU7B Spec 300A basic stock list with exceptions for David Bradley. The original release date for this David Bradley spec is July 14, 1950. This engine was painted black.

The next reference to David Bradley was for the 127.102. This was Continental AU7B Spec 300A basic stock list, with exceptions for David Bradley that made it into AU7B spec 329. The issue date for AU7B spec 329 is March 15, 1952. This engine was painted black

The next reference is for David Bradley 127.300 which was Continentals AU8B Spec 805 which was built to AU8B Spec 800 stock list with exceptions for David Bradley. The issue date for AU8B spec 805 is June 6, 1952. The assembly notes read: "Engine to be painted Gray. There is also a reference to Spec No. 575PA419. I have no idea what this spec number refers to The next reference is for David Bradley 127.400 which was Continentals AU85 spec CT840 which has an issue date of Jan 18, 1954. This was built to Continentals AU85 Spec "C" basic stock list with exceptions for David Bradley. This engine was painted with Jones and Dabney # 54-235 Grey air dry enamel.

The last reference I have is for David Bradley 127.450. This Continentals AU85 spec CT841 and CT842 built to Continentals AU85 Spec "C" with exceptions for David Bradley. This issue date on these specs CT841 and CT842 is October 27, 1954. After this date things get a little interesting.

On Jan 20, 1955 Continental issued another David Bradley spec. AU85 Spec CT842L. This was build to the AU85 spec CT842 stock list with exceptions. The exceptions were to omission of the fuel tank and strainer bowl and the engines were packed in an individual box instead of being pallet packed. Continentals records also refer to a spec number 575-PA-611 and 575-PA-643 which I have no idea of what those spec numbers refer to.

On October 31, 1957 Continental issued another David Bradley spec, AU85 spec CT842A. This engine was built to the AU85 spec 842 stock list, with the omission of the Boden Cable (p/n AA7-T-2770) and the Bronze Metallic Paint. The addition was that the engine was painted Gold. Continental also references a spec number 575-PA-611-A which is Greek to me.
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#8 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 08:58 AM

If we have any Mongrels in our engines its the 127-102 engine . It certainly is a cross between an Au7 and the Au8 , It had the 5 bolt head like all of the previous Au7s, it even had the Zenith Carb , The engine is 1.8 hp the engine has I believe the same coil as the au8 and 85 it does share the same points as well , I guess this is for a late model 56 . the casting AA7B-527. Wasn't used very long it was revised into a 7 bolt head AA7B-532 block . this engine has contex ignition like the au8s and au85s . Mine came with an aluminum 2 groove pulley, My plans are to install it onto a 56 tractor , it was previously mounted to a board for show purposes. when you look it over it does leave an impression . i think this engine is more or less a rare engine but must be more out there someplace.
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#9 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 12:01 PM

I have one word to describe you Amigatec.... Overachiever lol. No, in all fairness I will have to read it all better later this evening, but I am going to focus on post 7 a little today. I have an AU7, AU7B, and several AU8s in varying conditions (one AU8 is a parts engine cause it has a busted block). But as far as dating them all I am not concerned, as they will go on tractor models that had Continental engines originally... but I mostly lost interest in David Bradleys (I collected way to many....) I still grab the implements I find in the scrap yard for them though. I would love to dump some of the extra DBs off on someone... but dunno when lol.

#10 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 01:09 PM

Well I got of this from yahoo groups.

If you need to unload some DB's, you can ship them to me.

#11 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2012 - 04:13 PM

Plan yourself a trip out here and bring your trailer, we can make some deals.

#12 Als Hobbyshop OFFLINE  

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Posted October 22, 2012 - 05:01 PM

Just finished David Bradley with au8 engine runs ok but would like to rebuild carb.
how do I get phils email address.
thanks
Al
ps first post
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