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#16 Team_Green OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 01:29 PM

First, I have to say they ARE NOT HARMFUL.


Think of all the folks that have major health issues.. Im talking major digestive trac issues. They need to know what they are eating. It can be the difference of life and death. Twenty years ago when i had no health issues i would have stood beside ya saying its of no use to label. BUT not after the road i've been down to stay alive.

#17 jd.rasentrac OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 01:32 PM

How good for you can it be if they don't want to label it..

http://io9.com/59351...omment=51893161


Everyone can decide for himself, what he wants to eat. I'll abstain from such food. We have enough antibiotica and other chemicals in meat and other food. For me, that's enough.

If its harmful or not, maybe we'll see in ten or twenty or hundred years. Until then: enjoy your meal!

Edited by jd.rasentrac, August 19, 2012 - 01:35 PM.

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#18 Team_Green OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 01:42 PM

Im with you JD.

#19 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 01:53 PM

Well, being a farmer, I've stayed out of this discussion, but my opinions don't differ much from most of you, so I'll join in. I don't think GMO food will directly harm anyone, BUT GMO modified crops I do know will eventually (and already are) come with a high price to pay, and not the purchase price. The insects, weeds, & plant viruses are already getting stronger, and in the deep south, Roundup is becoming useless on many weeds, and will only get worse. Insects are getting to where it's harder & harder to keep them at bay also. One of these days we'll be back to a garden hoe & squashing bugs between our fingers. Talk about a shortage of food then & the chaos it will cause. People won't be stealing your metal/sawing off your catalytic converters then......they will raid your gardens, carry off your cows/goats, maybe even Fido! I sure hope this is in our extreme distant future, but things will advance so far eventually that we WILL go backwards....it's inevitable.
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#20 HowardsMF155 ONLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 02:09 PM

We have been modifing our food for thousands of years through selective breeding. We found edible seeds, roots, fruits, what have you, and cultivated them, then selected for traits WE wanted. Better yeild, sweeter flavor, resistance to prevalent diseases. The tools have changed, though, and allow us to make unprecedented changes and it's hard to say if they are all good ones. We have always had to protect our crops from opportunistic weeds and scavengers and it is mainly in the last hundred years that we do it with chemical methods. The biggest problem I have is with the interference by these big AGRO companies in the regulatory and political processes. To get back to the original post, if there is nothing to hide, why try so hard to hide it?

#21 Guest_gravely-power_*

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 02:11 PM

Certainly. That's why farmers have been using "tank mixes"...mixing two or more herbicides when spraying, and chemical companies keep updating their products.

The same happens with insects. They've become resistant to everything from DDT (back when it was way over-used) to BT in GMO crops.

All that is just part of the evolutionary process...if something survives, it reproduces and the offspring inherit its resistance.

I'm not sure that there is an answer to all of this. I'm not at all convinced that GMOs aren't harmful, or can't become harmful in the future. As it is, they can present challenges for people with certain food allergies and medical conditions. I'm not a big fan of starvation though and we need the higher yields. Also, returning to old farming practices isn't any good either, since those methods also led to nutrient depletion and erosion, not to mention that input costs (already high) would skyrocket if we returned to summer-fallowing etc.. Imagine what it would cost a farmer to suddenly be using 4-6 times more diesel than he currently does. Oh look, now I've gone and introduced global warming as a factor too.

What really bothers me about GMOs isn't the product itself though, it's the patent regulations and the possibility of a few corporations controlling our food supply and the problems with monocultures in farming. Those issues are so complex though, that I have never met anybody who could discuss them without contradicting themselves.

My best appraisal is that we're in more trouble than we comprehend and that there is no workable answer. The one thing we know for sure though is that our species has a history of doing this to ourselves and somehow we get through it and manage to advance.


That is one of the most rational and sane posts I have read lately. Thank you! :thumbs:
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#22 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 03:37 PM

Boy, this discussion is pretty deep. I'm on the fence about the labeling issue. On the one hand, I'd like to know what I'm putting into my body. On the other hand, I don't believe that it's as relevant as we might imagine it to be.
I totally agree with the Rev that we're in more trouble than we know though.
Some folks like to say that diseases like Celiac and Chrones are caused by all of the genetically modified foods because of their timely emergence as prevalent and recognizable conditions. I, however believe that it's simply a matter of the combination of "comercialized" foods, overexposure, and recessive genes. The gene that pre-disposes one to develop Celiac or Chrones (Yes, they are genetically inherited diseases, ask me how I know!) is a recessive one. When both parents carry the gene, the odds of the offspring developing the disease greatly increase. The next generation therefore has a greater chance of inheriting the gene and passing it along. couple these facts with the " overuse" of crops such as wheat, peanuts, soy, corn etc... And you have what we see today.
I am a resonably health conscious person and I like the labels that we have now. I'm just not sure that the proposed labels would make a difference to me personally.
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#23 JDGuy445 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 05:24 PM

I agree with what some of you are getting at. While I believe GMO's are not harmful, I can see how people with health issues may be need to be cautious of what is in all the food. The problem I see is GMO labeling is just more money to add. With this drought and all food prices will go up and more labeling will also add to it. If you don't like GMO's then there's organic in which case there already is labeling for. Olcowhand, that seems liek the way it is going. As we try to find more and more solutions to battle weeds and bugs it seems the pests get tougher. Soon the pests will be immune to the current Round-up. My Great-Grandfather and Grandfather were spraying crops, no mask, open station and all and that was back then with DDT.

The point is GMO's are not as bad as some people act like it is. Yes, people with certain health issues may want ot watch it, but seriously, stop acting like "OH NO! I'm gonna die cause my corn flakes were modified to battle bugs and handle pesticides.

I've seen some crazy stuff of FB on this topic. One thing that got me going was the "Monsanto is evil" stuff. For, petes sake what did they ever do to you. So what if they invented GMO's? That don't mean they are out to kill. Monsanto is trying thier hardest to make the world a better place with GMO's that produce better yields and so on. Just think, how in the world would we farmers be able to feed a growing population at over 7 billion already by organic ways of farming?

caseguy, that last sentence has to be THE most reasonable thing I've read all day.

#24 HydroHarold OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 11:39 PM

"The point is GMO's are not as bad as some people act like it is."

We simply DO NOT KNOW YET what the long term exposure will be. DDT, lead and Thalidomide was great stuff... for a while, all approved by the government for mass use. Long term is what we don't know about a bunch of stuff including electronic RF energy, daily intake of everyday chemicals and fooling around with food products.

Science can't even tell us why there's been such a giant upswing in Alzheimers and autism cases almost to epidemic proportions in the short time I've been on the Earth. They're still guessing about a bunch of stuff. Gambling with kids, grandkids, future kids... I have no kids but I wouldn't want to have to answer for such short term "testing" periods just to make food with different properties. All this sorta makes one feel like a free range lab rat.

#25 Reverend Blair OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 06:01 AM

I've seen some crazy stuff of FB on this topic. One thing that got me going was the "Monsanto is evil" stuff. For, petes sake what did they ever do to you. So what if they invented GMO's? That don't mean they are out to kill. Monsanto is trying thier hardest to make the world a better place with GMO's that produce better yields and so on. Just think, how in the world would we farmers be able to feed a growing population at over 7 billion already by organic ways of farming?



Actually, Monsanto is quite predatory and treats farmers badly. They've tried to patent tank mixes, they've sued farmers for wind-blown canola self-planting itself, etc.. I dislike them a lot. Of course that doesn't keep me from using Roundup, including on my veggie garden. I may not like Monsanto, but the product works.

When it comes to labelling, I don't think cost is a major issue. They already know what's in the products, and computerized systems make printing one label about the same cost as printing another. I do think people would be unduly frightened by the labels though. Chemical names are scary, no matter how benign the actual chemical is, and as a society we are pretty much scientifically illiterate.

What I would like to see on labelling is a simple "May contain GMO's." That would allow those with medical problems to be aware. Most of the rest of us would just ignore it, just like we ignore the calorie and nutrition information on current labelling.

#26 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 06:38 AM

Monsanto is trying thier hardest to make the world a better place.....


I'm sorry! I'm going to have to stay out of this discussion. I'm going to end up up hurting someone's feeling and it's not worth it.

#27 JDGuy445 ONLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 09:31 AM

Actually, Monsanto is quite predatory and treats farmers badly. They've tried to patent tank mixes, they've sued farmers for wind-blown canola self-planting itself, etc.. I dislike them a lot. Of course that doesn't keep me from using Roundup, including on my veggie garden. I may not like Monsanto, but the product works.

When it comes to labelling, I don't think cost is a major issue. They already know what's in the products, and computerized systems make printing one label about the same cost as printing another. I do think people would be unduly frightened by the labels though. Chemical names are scary, no matter how benign the actual chemical is, and as a society we are pretty much scientifically illiterate.

What I would like to see on labelling is a simple "May contain GMO's." That would allow those with medical problems to be aware. Most of the rest of us would just ignore it, just like we ignore the calorie and nutrition information on current labelling.

Yes, that would seem about right, I don't always agree with what they do but the products are great and I like to use them. They think they are doing a good job but in the eyes of some not so much. I'm not saying labebling is a bad thing but it could cause some issues for the company making the food plus the cost. Take away the issues and I would see no problem. That is what I've been trying to get at.

The cost and other minor issues that can come up with extra labeling is what is holding it back. Otherwise no problems with me.

#28 HydroHarold OFFLINE  

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Posted August 22, 2012 - 12:00 AM

"An Ohio University fact sheet estimates that we eat from one to two pounds of insects each year, and without knowing it."
http://www.sixwise.c...n_your_food.htm

Talk about "unwanted/unlabeled ingredients"! :dancingbanana:

#29 Team_Green OFFLINE  

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Posted August 22, 2012 - 08:26 AM

Hydro.. a LOT more then that if you ride a motor bike... Crickets are the worst tasting i find..
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#30 bh115577 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 22, 2012 - 12:41 PM

All this sorta makes one feel like a free range lab rat.


That statement is brilliant. I may just have to add that to my signature on all of the forums I frequent, with your approval of course.
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