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#1 Team_Green OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 12:22 PM

How good for you can it be if they don't want to label it..

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#2 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 12:54 PM

I have mixed emotions about this labeling issue. Yes I like to know what goes into my food and that's why I garden along with reducing my food costs by growing my own. If you consider that these companies that have multiple thousands of products would be required to redesign all of their labeling the cost would be astronomical. Since no corporation is going to lose money, the costs will be passed on to the consumer in price hikes. To me that like taking another cut in pay.
We already have enough laws and regulation, I can't blame corporations for lobbying to stop more when the ones who get hit with the cost are the consumers.

Edited by JD DANNELS, August 16, 2012 - 12:58 PM.

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#3 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 01:02 PM

That argument is completely ridiculous. You don’t add a rule to fix a problem that does not exist. Something should need to be labeled with a made up category if the notification bears no useful information. If there is ample of proof that GMO's are not harmful and no proof that they are then it's a non-issue. This is the same as requiring food to be labeled when it contains MSG… MSG is not bad for you. There has never been any evidence that it is… so require it? Do we not have enough bogus rules/laws in our life already?

#4 Team_Green OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 01:10 PM

This is the same as requiring food to be labeled when it contains MSG… MSG is not bad for you.


Tell that to someone with Crohn's Disease.. MSG can and will put you in the hospital.. There are more folks with Crohn's then most people realize.
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#5 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 01:21 PM

You may have a point there, all I know is that the FDA nor the WHO have been able to find it to be harmful. With the same logic, what desease flares up due to GMO's?

#6 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 02:03 PM

I guess the question that comes to my mind is just what defines Genetically Modified? And can we find any food product that has not been modified from it's origin, through cross polination, hybirdization, grafting , cross breedng etc.. Or in fact, can we not find genetic crosses in our own heritage? I'm not trying to make light of the question I just don't know where you draw the line.
I would like to find a true Rutger tomato(remeber them from my childhood), but the scientists at Rutgers University say that it has been modified and hybirdized to the point there is no original Rutger Tomato in existance.
I suspect that is true of most of our food products.

Labels are and can be a great thing, My wife and I became hopelessly avid label readers 36 yrs ago, when it was discovered our darling baby daughter was allergic to eggs. There is almost no packaged food that does not contain eggs and eggs to this day will make her deathly sick. One of the big reasons we garden and put up as much of our food as possible. Along with that the wife cooks everything from scratch and makes substitutions on recipes calling for eggs. So you see I'm not against labeling. just insist that it serves a real usful purpose.

Edited by JD DANNELS, August 16, 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#7 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 08:13 PM

I think a lot of confusion has been injected into the 'genetically modified' argument. It started out with concern with gene splicing experiments, where genes from vastly disimilar organisms were combined. Such as jelly fish genes inserted into a fish or cat.(Which makes the cat glow in the dark! Yuk!) Or, grafting Bt bacteria into a plant so it kills caterpillars and who knows what when they eat it.

From this original discussion, we have gone to worrying about "cross polination, hybirdization, grafting , cross breedng etc."; which are perfectly normal reproductive procceses. Crossbreeding or hybridizing is nothing other than breeding a donkey to a horse. Certainly nothing to make a label for!
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#8 JDGuy445 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 08:36 PM

First, I have to say they ARE NOT HARMFUL. I absolutely can't stand those people who act like it can hurt you. I've been farming and eating GMO's for a long time and no issues to report. For those of you on facebook, I've been blocked from several "Anti-GMO" pages for stating facts, no lie. Here are some facts for ya.
http://noprop37.com/page/who-we-are
http://www.whybiotech.com/resources/myths_plantbiotech.asp
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
http://m.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2012/06/gmo-bt-pesticides-crops
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/genetically-modified-food_n_1690653.html
http://www.science20.com/science_20/mercenary_intent_behind_proposition_37s_gm_food_labeling-92928
http://agribiotech.info/details
http://agribiotech.info/details/Chassy%20-%20Food%20Safe%20March%208%20-%2003.pdf
http://monsantoblog.com/2012/08/14/taking-a-stand-proposition-37-the-california-labeling-proposal/
http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/food-labeling.aspx
http://www.noprop37.com/page/fact-sheet2
http://www.science20.com/kevin_folta/food_fear_food_labels_and_my_two_cents-92078
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
http://theconversation.edu.au/top-five-myths-about-genetic-modification-2664

I'll get the rest later. Anywho, without GMO's the farmers of the world would have a harder time feeding over 7 billion people. GMO's have improved the world of farming.

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#9 JDGuy445 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 08:38 PM

I guess the question that comes to my mind is just what defines Genetically Modified? And can we find any food product that has not been modified from it's origin, through cross polination, hybirdization, grafting , cross breedng etc.. Or in fact, can we not find genetic crosses in our own heritage? I'm not trying to make light of the question I just don't know where you draw the line.
I would like to find a true Rutger tomato(remeber them from my childhood), but the scientists at Rutgers University say that it has been modified and hybirdized to the point there is no original Rutger Tomato in existance.
I suspect that is true of most of our food products.

Labels are and can be a great thing, My wife and I became hopelessly avid label readers 36 yrs ago, when it was discovered our darling baby daughter was allergic to eggs. There is almost no packaged food that does not contain eggs and eggs to this day will make her deathly sick. One of the big reasons we garden and put up as much of our food as possible. Along with that the wife cooks everything from scratch and makes substitutions on recipes calling for eggs. So you see I'm not against labeling. just insist that it serves a real usful purpose.

I agree on your point. While I don't think we need this GMO labeling, it would probably be a good idea to calm some people down, but it might then just cause more issues at hand.

#10 HowardsMF155 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 09:28 PM

That argument is completely ridiculous. You don’t add a rule to fix a problem that does not exist. Something should need to be labeled with a made up category if the notification bears no useful information. If there is ample of proof that GMO's are not harmful and no proof that they are then it's a non-issue. This is the same as requiring food to be labeled when it contains MSG… MSG is not bad for you. There has never been any evidence that it is… so require it? Do we not have enough bogus rules/laws in our life already?

MSG also causes problems for people with ciliac sprue; gluten in any form causes the intestines to stop working properly. Some people are starting to link excessive gluten to behavior problems in children, though that one I'm far less sure of.

#11 twostep OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2012 - 10:42 PM

We're getting off topic here as I was just using that as an example. But to respond, from my research todays MSG does not have wheat glutin (aka: glutin) in it as it did many many years ago. According to "gluten free" diets, it's not no-no item.

#12 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2012 - 07:07 AM

One question I have; will increased use of Round Up, Bt, or any other pesticide through the use of GMO crops hasten the develpment of immunity in pests?

#13 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2012 - 01:33 PM

One question I have; will increased use of Round Up, Bt, or any other pesticide through the use of GMO crops hasten the develpment of immunity in pests?


That is a good question. I listen to WHO Radio, am a talk show addict. Being the #1 station in an Ag State there are a lot of commercials for ag products. Even the comercials are pointing to weeds developing a resistance to herbicides and every year there is a new blend to counteract that. Could be the same in insects since the generation cycle is so fast?

#14 Reverend Blair OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2012 - 10:05 AM

One question I have; will increased use of Round Up, Bt, or any other pesticide through the use of GMO crops hasten the develpment of immunity in pests?


Certainly. That's why farmers have been using "tank mixes"...mixing two or more herbicides when spraying, and chemical companies keep updating their products.

The same happens with insects. They've become resistant to everything from DDT (back when it was way over-used) to BT in GMO crops.

All that is just part of the evolutionary process...if something survives, it reproduces and the offspring inherit its resistance.

I'm not sure that there is an answer to all of this. I'm not at all convinced that GMOs aren't harmful, or can't become harmful in the future. As it is, they can present challenges for people with certain food allergies and medical conditions. I'm not a big fan of starvation though and we need the higher yields. Also, returning to old farming practices isn't any good either, since those methods also led to nutrient depletion and erosion, not to mention that input costs (already high) would skyrocket if we returned to summer-fallowing etc.. Imagine what it would cost a farmer to suddenly be using 4-6 times more diesel than he currently does. Oh look, now I've gone and introduced global warming as a factor too.

What really bothers me about GMOs isn't the product itself though, it's the patent regulations and the possibility of a few corporations controlling our food supply and the problems with monocultures in farming. Those issues are so complex though, that I have never met anybody who could discuss them without contradicting themselves.

My best appraisal is that we're in more trouble than we comprehend and that there is no workable answer. The one thing we know for sure though is that our species has a history of doing this to ourselves and somehow we get through it and manage to advance.

#15 HydroHarold OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2012 - 10:51 AM

Indirectly on topic... I TOTALLY have to live by food package labeling. In 72 years I can't tell you how many times I've suffered from a "trace of peanuts or tree nuts" in any given food. It's far better today where they must put all of the ingredients on a label and list the major allergens in bold print at the bottom. So it costs somebody $.02 per thousand units, I feel safer and will buy more of the labeled products.

I also realize by now that whatever makes food producers more money more easily... we's gonna have to accept. I can't believe that this country has not outsourced most of our food production to China yet. But, like all the rest of the cheap-o chit now made in China, it's only a matter of time. I'll bet there's far less U.S. farmers than there are folks figgerin' out how to make more bigger money on food offshore outsourcing. All it will take is the right guy in the right place in government.




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