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Do I Need To Deglaze My Cylinder If?


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#1 littletractorguy OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 02:07 AM

I'm only changing the connecting rod? Kohler k181 out of a 1966 JD 110H, the rings look good, the bore looks good (to my untrained eye)... Can I get away with just changing the rod and possibly lapping the valves?

#2 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 04:16 AM

I have always honed the cylinder and installed new rings if I took the piston out. Hate to put something back together and have it use oil!
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#3 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 06:00 AM

I think you should consider what Kenny is saying. It would be a whole lot easier to do that work now and be done with it. My feeling is you could put it back together and it would run fine but I'm no expert in this stuff. You really should try to measure the engine parts for wear rather than relying on how it looks. I had a JD 314 motor apart last year, de carboned the head and replaced the head gasket. The cylinder looked "ok" but later I found out it was cracked.
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#4 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 07:56 AM

Some of the answer may depend on your expectations of the engine. If it's an occasional runner, only driving on & off the ramp at shows and an occasional puff is OK, then worst case scenario, you have to open her back up later if you change your mind.

I would check your end gap and out of round after a lite honing and base my decision from that.
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#5 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 08:13 AM

If it ran fine & burned no oil before, you can put the old rings back in. BUT, when the piston is pulled, you need to scribe little marks on the top of the piston to show where the ring gaps were so they can be placed exactly the same way when the piston is reinstalled. For the top ring I scribe a single mark, 2nd ring gets 2 marks. If a single oil ring, give it 3 marks. If the oil ring is a 2 rail ring with expander, just mark 3 marks for where the top rail is located & don't move the bottom rail, then it'll be aligned when the top rail is aligned.
I have read that because cylinders are never perfectly round that used rings will migrate on the piston to find their original plasce, but I like to ensure they go back in just as they came out. I only deglaze when installing new rings, and if the rings go back as they came out, there is absolutely no need to deglaze the cylinder, and if done will only serve to wear the rings a bit more.
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#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 10:44 AM

Thanks Daniel for giving us the benefit of experience. Thanks for the tip on marking the piston for ring placement.
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#7 littletractorguy OFFLINE  

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Posted July 29, 2012 - 12:16 PM

DOH... Pulled the piston WITHOUT scribing the rings (thanks for that hint!)... I guess I should bite the bullet and (after I pop out the camshaft) take the block down to a local engine shop and get them to mic it for me... Then think about ordering the full rebuild kit off ebay. Problem with this engine is that I don't KNOW how it ran before, it came to me looking like this on the inside...

Posted Image

I got a new con rod and crank, just to be sure, now I want to get it back together....

Edited by littletractorguy, July 29, 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#8 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted July 30, 2012 - 03:16 PM

Looks like you may have a pretty good build up of the aluminum rod on the crankshaft but it is hard to tell for sure since it could be just glare from the flash.

If I was doing it for a customer I would have him or her sign something that said I would not warranty the repair unless the engine was torn down and measured. Looks like the engine was starved for oil which could mean hidden damage. If I was doing it for me I would tear it down and spend the money to make it right.

Of course this is just my humble but well thought out opinion.

#9 frenchy OFFLINE  

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Posted July 31, 2012 - 03:35 PM

DOH... Pulled the piston WITHOUT scribing the rings (thanks for that hint!)... I guess I should bite the bullet and (after I pop out the camshaft) take the block down to a local engine shop and get them to mic it for me... Then think about ordering the full rebuild kit off ebay. Problem with this engine is that I don't KNOW how it ran before, it came to me looking like this on the inside...

Posted Image

I got a new con rod and crank, just to be sure, now I want to get it back together....


Looks like you may have a pretty good build up of the aluminum rod on the crankshaft but it is hard to tell for sure since it could be just glare from the flash.


Littletractorguy,

If GTTinkerer is right about the aluminum build up, you can remove it with Muriatic Acid. Works like a charm. I did the same on my Kohler K321 from my MF14. But then I blew another rod and needed to get the .010 under rod and get the crank ground down! DOH

Good luck!
Frenchy

#10 littletractorguy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 01, 2012 - 10:21 PM

Actually, you know, I went after that puppy with some chunks of medium-grit foam sanding block (the kind you use for sanding baseboards) and here's how it came out....

Posted Image

That said, I DID buy a new/used connecting rod and crankshaft from a friend of mine in New York, and I'm putting those two in, just because they're a matched, undamaged set. I gotta be honest tho, I've started reassembly of this engine without re-ringing and de-glazing, and without getting the block mic'ed... Much of that is because of lack of $$$$, plus lack of time, and some of it is because I'm so new at this small engine thing, I'm looking at this as a practice engine. I've lapped the valves
Posted Image

I dropped the crank back in and got the timing marks aligned, I've got the bearing plate back on and the oil seals back in (I DO have a gasket and seal set for the K181 so all those are new),

Posted Image

and the next spare hour or two I've got, I'll fight through getting the piston and connecting rod back in, clean out the breather, drop the valves back in and get the head back on... A friend of mine who used to restore British racing cars from the 70s says "come on, its only a tractor!" and in a sense he's right... I'll be interested to see if what everybody says about these older engines is true, that they're more tolerant, especially for beginners like me...

Edited by littletractorguy, August 01, 2012 - 10:22 PM.


#11 Guest_gravely-power_*

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Posted August 03, 2012 - 07:56 PM

I have re-assembled Kohlers and Wisconsin's with the used rings and did not hone. I still own a Kohler 3 years later and all is well.

Good luck.

#12 littletractorguy OFFLINE  

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Posted August 10, 2012 - 09:57 PM

Well, I had some time today, cuz I took the day off, so I ran the k181 block over to a local engine place to have them mic it... It's within spec... And they recommended new rings as well... And since there is a NAPA only blocks from them... $53 later (33 for the rings, 15 for shipping and 5 bux tax), I should have the rings by Wednesday. So I did a bit of a hone (I'll post pictures tomorrow), and some general cleanup.. Of course, honing meant pulling the bearing plate... Again... Didn't want to risk running the hone into the crankshaft.. So tomorrow I'll drop the crank back in, put the bearing plate back on, and stick the valves back in.
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#13 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted August 11, 2012 - 08:46 AM

I think you will be very glad you did this. That engine will last you a long time now.

#14 deere3332 ONLINE  

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Posted September 25, 2012 - 06:51 PM

I just got done replacing the cam in my 10hp. I did not hone the cyl and my engine runs great

#15 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted September 25, 2012 - 06:59 PM

I think you made a good choice getting new rings considering you didn't know whether it used oil or not before you acquiring it.




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