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Differences In K-series Kohler Blocks.


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#1 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2012 - 08:59 PM

If you have read my thread about my Ford LGT 145, you know I'm trying to figure out what to do for an engine. In looking for a usable 14hp engine, I have discovered differences in the bottom end of the block where the oil pan attaches. So far I have looked at engines from a WH Raider 14, Ford LGT 145, and a 214 John Deere. I will check out the 14hp engine from a Power King.

Here are a few photos,

This is a wheel Horse block, it can only be used with the large oil pan, it has cutouts in the bottom which will not be covered up when using a small pan.
2012-06-26_16-29-26_174.jpg

This is a Ford block. It can be used with any small pan that I have looked at so far.
2012-06-27_16-34-36_274.jpg

The is the JD block, It can be used with both small and large oil pans, notice that it does not have the cutouts like the WH block has, but has the flanges like the WH has.
[2012-06-27_16-34-40_824.jpg


I will update this as I get to more blocks and pans, if you have a photo of the bottom of a Kohler block that is different. I will add this to this thread so we have a good reference on the differences in these blocks.
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#2 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2012 - 10:23 PM

Awesome reference thread Brian, thanks.
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#3 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2012 - 10:39 PM

Good idea for a topic! I am interested to see the bottom of a PK block, the engines that went into them were speced very specificly.
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#4 MF14 plowday special OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2012 - 11:15 PM

My guess is the PK block is like the third picture which is the JD block .

Early 200 series JD used the Ford type block (without flanges) and later JD 200 series used the flange block you show in your pictures.

I hate to bring this up but Ford also used engines with 1 1/8 inch shafts and most of the other GT's used 1 inch shaft. So you might not be able to use the Ford pto clutch ..... but should be a goodie to sell on ebay if you can't use it when you repower.

Is your 145 the blue and white quiet series with side shields ... or is it the solid blue colored tractor? The quiet series is on motor mounts and the all blue tractor has the oil pan WELDED TO THE FRAME !!!

.... And thanks for an interesting post .... that Wheel Horse style block is one I have not seen.
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#5 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted June 27, 2012 - 11:40 PM

My guess is the PK block is like the third picture which is the JD block .

Early 200 series JD used the Ford type block (without flanges) and later JD 200 series used the flange block you show in your pictures.

I hate to bring this up but Ford also used engines with 1 1/8 inch shafts and most of the other GT's used 1 inch shaft. So you might not be able to use the Ford pto clutch ..... but should be a goodie to sell on ebay if you can't use it when you repower.

Is your 145 the blue and white quiet series with side shields ... or is it the solid blue colored tractor? The quiet series is on motor mounts and the all blue tractor has the oil pan WELDED TO THE FRAME !!!

.... And thanks for an interesting post .... that Wheel Horse style block is one I have not seen.


Thanks, The PK block that I have on the outside looks just like the WH block. I was originally going to use the WH, because it also has a 1 1/8" crank for the pto. If I use the JD engine, I will either run a JD ele. clutch or machine a steel bushing to use the Ford clutch. This is a Second Generation LGT145, closed side panels with the rubber iso. motor mounts.

#6 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 01:08 AM

Brian Miller has a list of differences in the Kohler blocks.
It's about 3/4 way down the page, highlighted in yellow.

http://gardentractor....com/engine.htm
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#7 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 04:49 AM

This is good info to know! Brian, will the JD engine work okay with the Ford cradle, or do the flanges get in the way?
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#8 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 05:07 AM

Nice info Brian. I saw a Kohler engine Specification manual on Ebay the other day for the K series. It looked like it had the type of info you are describing. I looked on the Kohlerr site and couldn't find it to download. This is good info as I am looking for a K321 block for my 314.
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#9 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 05:59 AM

Brian , is the bolt pattern the same on all the engines and only the outer edges of the pans different ?
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#10 Wheel Horse Kid OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 07:02 AM

Very informative thread, Brian! Thanks for starting it! I never realized before how many differences there were between even Kohler motors with the same hp.
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#11 MF14 plowday special OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 08:19 AM

Nice info Brian. I saw a Kohler engine Specification manual on Ebay the other day for the K series. It looked like it had the type of info you are describing. I looked on the Kohlerr site and couldn't find it to download. This is good info as I am looking for a K321 block for my 314.

You also need to be concerned about flywheel and crankshaft. Late 200 series JD flange blocks have same block as 314 I believe but crankshaft is different on the end. Sometimes side drive engines can not be swapped into hydros.

Also there is variation in method for securing flywheel to the crank. Most engines have external threads and you just turn a nut onto the end of the crank..... but some kohlers have a threaded hole in the end of the crank shaft and you use a bolt and washer to secure the the flywheel. I have JD 212's here that have both methods but the ones that bolt on are late 200 series tractors.
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Posted June 28, 2012 - 08:39 AM

Thanks, The PK block that I have on the outside looks just like the WH block. I was originally going to use the WH, because it also has a 1 1/8" crank for the pto. If I use the JD engine, I will either run a JD ele. clutch or machine a steel bushing to use the Ford clutch. This is a Second Generation LGT145, closed side panels with the rubber iso. motor mounts.

You may not be aware that Small Engine Warehouse sells a sleeve with a keyway to adapt a one inch shaft to 1&1/8th. Also included in the kit is a key, 1/4 by 5/16 that locks everything together. Between $10 and $20 as I recall.
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#13 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 09:52 AM

This is good info to know! Brian, will the JD engine work okay with the Ford cradle, or do the flanges get in the way?


Kenny, I may have to bevel the bottom outside edge of the flange on the block, I put one of the cradles on and seems to be in a slight bind when it was pulled up tight.
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#14 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 09:52 AM

You also need to be concerned about flywheel and crankshaft. Late 200 series JD flange blocks have same block as 314 I believe but crankshaft is different on the end. Sometimes side drive engines can not be swapped into hydros.

Also there is variation in method for securing flywheel to the crank. Most engines have external threads and you just turn a nut onto the end of the crank..... but some kohlers have a threaded hole in the end of the crank shaft and you use a bolt and washer to secure the the flywheel. I have JD 212's here that have both methods but the ones that bolt on are late 200 series tractors.


Thanks for the info. It's not as straight forward as it first appears.

#15 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted June 28, 2012 - 09:55 AM

Brian , is the bolt pattern the same on all the engines and only the outer edges of the pans different ?


The JD and the Ford block's use inside set of holes, the WH block uses the holes in the flange made on the block. I will get more pictures today of the pans and blocks.
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