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My Bolens Project - 850

bolens 850 191-02 tube frame wisconsin s8d tractor restoration 1969

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#46 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 16, 2012 - 03:12 PM

PLEASE get a new key !!!!! .....Your key is now undersize, and will cause the pulley to become loose on the shaft again.

http://www.pittinaro...-1187474_01.jpg


I agree with Bruce

Spend the extra couple dollars for the new key now, so you wont have problems later and need to buy another pulley which is getting scarce.... You most likely will cause damage to the crankshaft as well.

#47 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 17, 2012 - 08:51 AM

Damn, you know it is hot and WAY too humid when your paint won't dry even with chemical hardener added to it! I'm also getting some paint running because it is so humid and the paint's not drying properly... :mecry:

Still, despite setbacks, I got the inside of the hood and fenders painted with one coat of white. It definitely looks like it needs a second coat though to fully cover the primer. Then I can flip them over and do the "beauty side". I also got one rear wheel sanded and painted. Once it is done I can put it back on the tractor and take another one off. I have to say too, the MF Red I got looks pretty close to the original Bolens red I think. Either way, it looks good. (I also got confused in an earlier post where I called it AC Red I think... I don't believe Allis Chalmers even used red on their equipment though, did they?)

#48 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2012 - 10:51 PM

So, been very busy lately and hardly even had time to work on the tractor let alone take progress photos. But roughly, here's how it has been in one quick update...


Tuesday, July 17th - I got the engine pulley back on! And finally found belts that would fit (after running around to several different stores buying and trying out and returning multiple belts...) It was a royal pain I was not expecting!

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Has anyone had any luck with the Dayco belts at Advance Auto Parts? They are like an off-white color and I think are some type of synthetic material belt for use on lawn and garden applications. The problem I seemed to have with them was that the correct size belts (according to the parts manual for my tractor) were too short, or at least these belts didn't have enough play and stretch in them to fit properly. The belts would slip on, but for instance with the PTO belt, it was so tight that the PTO would be engaged all the time even when it was disengaged! The idler pulley couldn't move over to engage the belt either because there wasn't enough "give" to the belt.

So, I returned these belts and got the next size up, which were an inch longer. Now these were TOO LONG!! They fit around the pulleys but now were so loose the idler pulleys would engage them fully and there would still be slack in them! How in the hell can one inch make that huge of a difference? So, I had to return those too! Advance didn't have any other belts besides these for me to try, so I bought the belts pictured above at Napa. They are the correct length according to the manual, but are made of real rubber it looks like. So, they fit better, have more give, and look like they should operate properly (I hope). I'll update once I fire this back up when it is done...

(Also, seems like the pulley went on a lot nicer this time after cleaning it out. But, it still went on pretty tight and I had to do some gentle tapping with the rubber mallet to get it on. It seems tight enough and with the set screws tightened down, I highly DOUBT it will move around at all when it is running.)



Wednesday, July 18 - So, in the meantime, here is the progress on the fenders and hood so far:

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But, as mentioned in my last post, due to the heat and humidity recently, there was some problems with paint running and not drying properly... :mecry:

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I know, it looks like s%#& and I'm not happy about it!!! But at least it is on the inside of the hood so you won't see it. I doubt I can try to clean it up at all either without ending up having to strip it back down to bare metal again... :wallbanging:


I even sanded down the top of the instrument cluster on the tractor and painted that as well. I'll do the black part once the white dries and I can mask it off.

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I also got two coats of MF Red on the right rear wheel already and put it back on. The left wheel is pulled off and is the next to be painted. Can't have mis-matched wheels now, can I? The first wheel came out really nice:

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And the back side as well:

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... despite a few runs as well due to the humidity - :(

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The deck is coming along as well.... More pics to come in the future of that as well. Got the pullies re-assembled and the belt on it along with the transfer gear box. It looks pretty good (even though it's not in its original green color...) The belt tensioner spring I got was WAY too short and tight to work though. I couldn't even get the belt on because it was too tight! So, I had to swap it out at Lowe's for a slightly longer and smaller in diameter (and easier to expand) spring that seems to work fine.


I'll keep the progress coming, so long as there is any!!! lol!

Edited by MailmAn, July 18, 2012 - 11:02 PM.


#49 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 19, 2012 - 06:08 AM

Thanks for the updates.

I would look into getting a better quality belt though. The ones you have on there are just a low grade rubber v-belt that is not designed for clutching applications. I'd give these belts about 1 month before they snap in half. (I have gone through this before)
Since these are not fabric covered the belt's will also be grabbing.

#50 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 19, 2012 - 07:27 AM

Since these are not fabric covered the belt's will also be grabbing.


What do you mean by this? Instead of just plain rubber, the surface of the belt would be covered in fabric to help it slip more without destroying the belt? Like I said though, I tried with the Dayco belts and had such a horrid time with those! I figured these were my best option. They looked much closer to the old belts I took off of the tractor than the ones I got from Advance Auto Parts. Plus, it says on the cardboard sleve the belts came in that they are "Industrial Use Belts", so I figured they should be pretty heavy duty. Not like the FHP belts that were mentioned in the Bolens Belt Sizes Sticky. I mean, I've tried every other place including TSC and no one seems to have belts close to these. Unless I order them online from one of the Bolens NOS dealers around or something?

I think I found some pics of a belt I bought at Advance that I took when I first bought them (before I tried to install them). Of course, this is the deck belt (which I kept and used since that one fit and is supposed to be under tension all the time) but it is the same material as the other belts I bought. As I said though, they didn't fit. Do you know what material they are made out of?

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Edited by MailmAn, July 19, 2012 - 07:29 AM.


#51 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 19, 2012 - 07:48 AM

Belts are made of many different materials so its hard to say what that white one is made out of.
For best results you need to buy Kevlar reinforced belts. There are a few good options on ebay if you type in the Bolens part numbers: As with many other things the old saying "you pay for what you get" applies to belts.

Drive belts: 1715006
PTO Belt 1715740

Having a fabric cover on the belt allows for more smooth clutching and the belt will run cooler.
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#52 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 21, 2012 - 06:58 PM

I would look into getting a better quality belt though. The ones you have on there are just a low grade rubber v-belt that is not designed for clutching applications.
Since these are not fabric covered the belt's will also be grabbing.
Having a fabric cover on the belt allows for more smooth clutching and the belt will run cooler.


Damn it, Dr. Bolens... sometimes when you're right you're right!!

Just tried to start up the tractor this evening to test it out while I'm waiting to finish up the hood and fenders. The starter would barely turn the engine over with those belts and when I finally did get it to start after much cranking, both belts were running all the time and it was smoking pretty bad, so I had to shut it down. :mecry: The belts were quite hot from only running it for about a minute. They're either too thick/wide and aren't riding in the pulley groove right or, like you said, due to the cheap rubber construction they're just grabbing at the pulleys too much and won't slip like they're supposed to when they are not engaged.

So, I had to disassemble everything and rip out the belts (literally... they were a witch to get out of there! They were like stuck in the pulley...). Napa closes early on Saturday, so I guess I'll have to go to-morrow morning to return the belts and see if they (hopefully) have something else that will work!!!

I need this thing going ASAP as I have 2 lawns to mow this weekend and I'd like to try it out after all this time!! So, no real time to wait to order something online and wait 2 weeks to get it... :(

Edited by MailmAn, July 21, 2012 - 07:01 PM.


#53 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted July 21, 2012 - 09:06 PM

Maybe this will help you:

Looking at your pics further up in this thread, it appears your belt guides for the drive belts are not adjusted properly.

The guides should be close to, but not touching, the back of the belt when the belt is under tension. ...The guides should be approx 1/16"-1/8" away from the belt.

The purpose of the belt guides is to control where the slack in the belt is located when the belt is not under tension. .....When the guides are too far away from the belt, the slack "bows out" to the sides, and allows the belt to drag in the pulley.

By having the guides properly adjusted, the slack is forced upward, and the belt does not drag on the pulley.

I think most of the smoking that occurred was because both the high & low speed belts were turning at the same time. ....If the pulleys were the same size, that would not be a problem. ....But because the pulleys are different sizes to get the two speeds, the belts were "fighting" each other.

The PTO belt is adjusted by loosening the 3 bolts that hold the PTO to the tractor. ....The mounting holes are slotted to allow the PTO to be moved up or down slightly.

If the PTO doesn't stop turning, either the upper belt guide (on the engine) is not in its proper position, the lower belt guide (around the PTO pulley) is missing, or the belt is too tight. ......Adjusting the PTO upward may help if the belt is too tight, but if the guides are missing or not in their proper position, the PTO adjustment will not help. ....Moving the PTO 1/4" will typically change the belt length by 1/2". ......If you have to, the slots in the PTO can be filed to make them longer, which will increase the amount of adjustment available.
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#54 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2012 - 07:28 AM

Hmmm... good to know. I didn't realize that the PTO was adjustable up or down on these tractors. I know about the belt guides and I attempted to adjust them properly, but I think more that the belts themselves are the problem as the belt guides were adjested as far out as they could go and they were still lightly touching the belts. I just have to get the right belts for the application.

In reading the belt guide sticky (which I prolly should have done first before looking for belts) it says there that the "medium HP" application belts are listed as A, B, or C belts. The belts that I have here are B31 and B40 belts, which are 34" and 43" long, respectively, but are all 21/32" wide, which I think is too wide for these pulleys. They don't seem to ride in the groove properly and "stick out" at the top instead of running flush with the outside edge of the pulley. It says that the correct Bolens belts are supposed to be 5/8" wide, which is 1/32" narrower than the belts I have here, which I know doesn't sound like much, but evidently can make a big difference. IDK if I need to try running A belts, which are 1/2" wide (which granted is too narrow now than 5/8", but at least might fit in the pulley groove better) or try to find FHP belts that will work (which the Bolens belts I have seen on eBay that Dr. Bolens suggested all seem to be Kevlar reinforced FHP belts and not the A, B, or C rated belts...).

Who knew this could be so confusing?!?! I'm thinking - buy belts, throw them on, poo works! Evidently NOT!

:confuse:

Edited by MailmAn, July 22, 2012 - 07:29 AM.


#55 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2012 - 07:37 AM

I think even after trying to adjust the belt guides you will still be dealing with the one grabbing (One that is not engaged) Those rubber belts are not meant for clutching drives, you may be able to get away with these on a 1050 whick keeps constant tension on the belts, but on these 3 speeds with the belt switch lever you need to buy a good quality belt that is kevlar reinforced and fabric covered which allows for a smooth clutching action (not grabbing)

Keep in mind that a FHP (Fractional HP) belt is NOT a kevlar belt and is not power rated!

#56 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2012 - 07:47 AM

Keep in mind that a FHP (Fractional HP) belt is NOT a kevlar belt and is not power rated!


Then what are these? http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649 and http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649

These are both listed as Kevlar reinforced FHP belts and use the FHP belt designations - 5L340 and 5L430. They are listed with the correct Bolens part numbers for the 850.

This is about all that came up when I did a search on eBay for Bolens Belts... There may have been a couple NOS Bolens belts, but they were asking twice as much as the price of these belts for what looked like the same exact thing....

Edited by MailmAn, July 22, 2012 - 07:48 AM.


#57 goodnews OFFLINE  

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Posted July 22, 2012 - 08:50 AM

check out (icehut4) on ebay thats where i buy my belts they'll be the ones Doc. is talking about. john 1:7 have a blessed day

#58 MailmAn OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2012 - 09:32 AM

Well, I took my Bolens out Sunday for its first run since I've been working on "restoring" it:





Hope you enjoyed this video. It was so much fun to ride around finally!
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#59 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2012 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for the video.

#60 Newpaws493 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 24, 2012 - 10:01 AM

Congrats on first ride! That's a special day. Video is fantastic! enjoyed the show, next time I'll watch with snacks. The clarity offers a lot of detail of the tractor with deck and I really appreciate that. Glad to see you've worked out the issues with belts and such. Lookin forward to the updates. :thumbs:
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: bolens, 850, 191-02, tube frame, wisconsin, s8d, tractor, restoration, 1969

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